Well, that's what you say anyway.
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Feel the Spirit?
- Thread starter Luke2427
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psalms109:31
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"Ye will not come to me that ye might have life." There is no life in God the Father for a sinner; there is no life in God the Spirit for a sinner apart from Jesus. The life of a sinner is in Christ. If you take the Father apart from the Son, though he loves his elect, and decrees that they shall live, yet life is only in his Son. If you take God the Spirit apart from Jesus Christ, though it is the Spirit that gives us spiritual life, yet it is life in Christ, life in the Son. We dare not, and cannot apply in the first place, either to God the Father, or to God the Holy Ghost for spiritual life. The first thing we are led to do when God brings us out of Egypt is to eat the Passover—the very first thing. The first means whereby we get life is by feeding upon the flesh and blood of the Son of God; living in him, trusting on him, believing in his grace and power. Our second thought was—there is life in Christ.
C.H. Spurgeon.
If you are looking for an educated opinion how regeneration came to you, and not truly looking at your experience than Pink is your man but for me a I am a Spurgeon Calvinist.
I do not need Pink to tell me how I got life I can see it from my own experience.
I was dead in my sin no life in me at all, didn't feel in power in me. That person out in summer camp preaching when he starting preach there was a power in his word drawing me to Christ by His loving kindness for what Christ did for me while I was dead in my sin He died for me took my place.
The preacher went through the gory details of what Christ did for me.
The Holy Spirit was working with me through the words of the Holy Spirit filled preacher and I ran to Christ to save this wretched child.
To me Pink is trying to turn me away from my true experience to his educated answer to win me over to his view.
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There have been good men on both sides of the issue, but I am convinced the Bible teaches Gospel regeneration. Those who adhere to a pure immediate regeneration often mistakenly think that Gospel regeneratoin is more synergistic, but as Fergusson points out, the fact that God uses the Gospel to regenerate is no less monergistic than the view of the purest immediate regenerationists.
Thank you for this very productive post. It adds so much to the discussion. LOL!
convicted1
Guest
Yesterday afternoon, I was mowing the yard on our riding mower. I was pondering the scriptures, thinking about how the saints, when they die, they go to sleep. Not soul sleep, but to rest from the labors...I think that's what it means in regards to sleep....anyhoo...then 1 Thess. 4 came to my mind and I began quoting it in my head, and when I got to the part where it says...."I would not have you ignorant concerning them which are asleep, for the Lord Himself shall descend in the cloud, with a shout, with the voice of the Arch Angel and the trump of God".....all of a sudden I could feel His presence all around and through me. I began clapping my hands and shouting praises unto Him. Yes, I love feeling His Spirit!!! If I went a while w/o feeling Him, I'd be one miserable man....
Amen brother! He hasn't left us alone, He has sent the Comforter!
No matter how dark the night, Or bitter the winds that blow,
One touch of the Master's gentle hand And I am ready to go;
I'll go anywhere with Him Thru tempest or sinking sand,
As long as I feel the tender touch, The touch of his tender hand
One touch of his gentle hand Means more that the world to me
One touch of his gentle hand means more than the world to me
A touch of His gentle hand Can strengthen the faintest heart,
A touch of His tender hand divine New hope and love can impart;
And so in His name I'll go, And whether on sea or land,
I never shall fail if I can feel the The touch of His gentle hand.
One touch of his gentle hand Means more that the world to me
One touch of his gentle hand means more than the world to me
Wherever I chance to be, Wherever my feet may roam,
I'll trust in the Lord's unchanging hand To lead me all the way home;
And ever my prayer shall be Till safely at home I stand,
That I can just feel His touch so real,
One touch of his gentle hand Means more that the world to me
One touch of his gentle hand means more than the world to me
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convicted1
Guest
:applause::applause::applause::applause:
Prepared beforehand:
ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5
And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready at the quarry; and there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building. 1 Ki 6:7
John the Baptist filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb, David made to hope while on his mother's breast, Isaac born after the Spirit by the time of his weaning, all without the gospel. The Spirit where He willeth doth blow.
But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3:21
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1
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Like Schreiner:
Does regeneration necessarily precede conversion?
"The answer to the question is “yes,”....."
Regeneration precedes conversion.
Conversion is a process, that takes place in the life of a believer.
This:
Mat 16:15-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Precedes this:
Luk 22:31-33
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. 33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
Conversion is a process, that takes place in the life of a believer.
This:
Mat 16:15-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Precedes this:
Luk 22:31-33
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. 33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
What you felt was joy over your pondering upon the goodness of God.
The Bible is full of references to that great blessing.
What is not in the Bible, however, is some sixth sense whereby we "feel" when God is present.
What I mean by that is when people say, "God was in that place. I felt him."
That kind of thing is so ingrained in our Christian culture that we think it is as essential to Christianity as the Virgin Birth- but it is not even in the Bible.
The problem with it is that leads people away from real joy which is based, not on some experience, but on the knowledge of God.
I have counseled countless people who have doubted their salvation because they "haven't felt God's presence in a while." They are always looking for that ethereal high. It is how they judge their relationship with God. It is how they judge a good church service. It is how they determine the will of God in some major decision they are about to make. And it is very harmful.
I didn't read the article because the title indicated that perhaps you are misunderstanding what I am trying to say. If I am wrong, I'll gladly go back and read the article.
Gospel Regeneration does not deny that regeneration precedes faith. I hold to that idea perhaps more radically than most. I believe a man can be regenerate for some time before he is converted. I simply beleive the Bible teaches that God uses means for both his regeneration and his conversion.
What kind of means?
Mere human emotion, is what you're saying. I and others and the Scriptures we've posted are saying you're wrong.
Nicodemus: "Rabbi, we have known that from God thou hast come..."
Christ: "If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God."
In the same vein as:
Peter: " Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Christ: "Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven."
Nicodemus FELT DRAWN to Christ, the FEELING was so strong that he slipped away at night in spite of his fear of the Jews to talk to Him. And the Saviour assured him that it wasn't the flesh that gave him that FEELING that attracted him like a moth to the light. 'He that doeth the truth cometh to the light, his works have been wrought in God' [v 21].
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1:47
Compare with:
but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2:29
That was Nathaniel's condition PRIOR to ever meeting Christ or hearing the gospel of the kingdom. Yea, the Spirit where He willeth doth blow.
Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Jn 1:48
I've often wondered just what kind of FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS Nathanael was having under that fig tree that the Saviour was privy to.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Romans 10:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word [Or concerning Christ]of Christ.
Matthew 8:
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”
7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”
8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
John 5:39
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
If anyone came to Christ it wasn't by themselves or the Holy Spirit working without the word of God. All Scripture speaks of Christ if they came to Christ it was through the Holy Spirit and the word of God speaking of Christ or just words about Christ.
It isn't just the Holy Spirit and its't just the word without the Holy Spirit it is His word and the Holy Spirit working together.
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
Trying to ignore your new heart is getting you away from the truth. I don't know what is worst having a hard heart or having no heart at all.
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Romans 10:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word [Or concerning Christ]of Christ.
Matthew 8:
The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”
7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”
8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
John 5:39
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
If anyone came to Christ it wasn't by themselves or the Holy Spirit working without the word of God. All Scripture speaks of Christ if they came to Christ it was through the Holy Spirit and the word of God speaking of Christ or just words about Christ.
It isn't just the Holy Spirit and its't just the word without the Holy Spirit it is His word and the Holy Spirit working together.
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
Trying to ignore your new heart is getting you away from the truth. I don't know what is worst having a hard heart or having no heart at all.
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All about being 'saved' (converted), not individuals being born from the Jerusalem above. Specifically it's about desiring that Israel after the flesh would be converted to Christianity, and it's really incomplete as you've posted, you need to include the rest of it:
18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did Israel not know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I anger you.
20 And Isaiah is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I became manifest unto them that asked not of me.
21 But as to Israel he saith, All the day long did I spread out my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Ro 10
A great example of what Christ was alluding to here:
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10:16
The account given in Acts 10, Cornelius, is where these 'other sheep' were first officially began to be brought in, converted, to the kingdom of God.
You're using this verse in support of your view when in actuality it shows your view to be exactly the same error the Jews made. You believe no one can have eternal life without the word. Paul reiterates the gist of what Christ is saying here:
but hath now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Tim 1:10
The written word or gospel has zilch to do with imparting life and immortality, it only tells of it. It is Christ that died and who is the life giving Spirit.
Those that believe and obey the gospel are already in possession of eternal life:
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......Jn 3:36
.....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...Jn5:24
... He that believeth hath eternal life. Jn 6:47
psalms109:31
Active Member
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Hebrews 4:2
For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
We who believe know where the wind comes from His word that brings life. We do not see it but we know what He is doing in our lives.
I am bring born again changed by His enduring wor.
You can't have life or His Spirit without His word and the word about Him the scripture you gave I have no argument but you cannot be changed born again with the word that you are born again by and you can't be changed without the word that leads you to the new life in Christ.
God desires mercy not sacrafice go find out what that means?
What a second you have to ignore your emotions
The word, Logos, as in:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. Jn 1
NOT the written word, but the living Word which most certainly imparts eternal life. He is the sole source of eternal life.
psalms109:31
Active Member
The enduring word of God that tells me about the word of God made flesh not just out of the blue or zapped with life. It is the enduring word of God. I wouldn't even know about Christ without the word about Him that I am born again by.
Jesus tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that we are born again by and His word that He spoke is that Spirit and life.
What is the point if you know I am telling you the truth and you believe it is emotional you are going to ignore what is said any ways
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