Yes, this was an unusual occasion.
What was the Passover really like?
Barnes comments:
And Clarke the same thing:
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Fermented and Unfermented Wine
- Thread starter steaver
- Start date
What was the Passover really like?
Barnes comments:
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
After taking the cup... another verse says it was the fruit of the vine.
Now, where is your verse that says it was alcoholic?
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
You are not going by the Scriptur4s. Scriptures never call that which was drank at the Lord's Supper "wine".
Scripture reveals that it was a cup with fruit of the vine in it.
You add your own opinion that it was fermented wine to fit your agenda.
Most say it was 3-5%. Even then some water may have been added. Do your own calculations.
Like I said, buy Nyquil at the store and it is 25% alcohol.
Wines come in all kinds. A port wine will average around 20% alcoholic content. But even sparkling grape juice will have less than 0.1% alcohol in it, hardly enough to make it qualify for a fermented beverage. After all, in the eyes of the ancients, they were not scientists. Nor is it probable they make "sparkling grape juice."
Take a look at:
http://www.alcoholcontents.com/wine/
Their preferred table beverage was no doubt the juice that came from the grape--unfermented wine or grape juice. To impose western wine making standards in an age 2,000 years ago is ludicrous. Their wine was terrible. It tasted horrible. When sent to Rome it was rejected. What then do you think they drank? The obvious answer is the fruit of the vine--the sweetness of the fresh grape.
I only repeat what the Bible says.
Who said they stopped anything?
And where does the Bible say it was alcoholic?
You are reading into the Scripture something that isn't there.
I quoted Jesus saying divide it among you. DHK said that if it were wine they would be drunk.
You are lying. I have added nothing.
Luke 22:18 for I say to you that I may not drink of the produce of the vine till the reign of God may come.'
Luke 22:20 In like manner, also, the cup after the supping, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood, that for you is being poured forth.
From Young's Literal Translation: There is no mention of anything alcoholic there. The produce of the vine definitely implies grape juice.
You said it here Moriah. Why are you being deceptive.
In this thread someone has lied about me and slandered me, they even use deceptive measures. It is hard to listen to people who distort the truth, and even use deception to slander me.
I have also been judged falsely, when I should not have been judged at all.
It is a human teaching not to drink wine and to say that it is sin. Apostle Paul warned Christians, “do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink... Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!” These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. (Colossians 2:16, 20-23).
I have read very good arguments in this thread that the fruit of the vine at the Lord’s Supper was fermented because there were no grapes to be harvested at the Passover.
Here is something else to consider, something that I have already brought up in this thread… When the Corinthians re-enacted the Lord’s Supper, some of them got drunk (1Corinthians 11:21).
I have also been judged falsely, when I should not have been judged at all.
It is a human teaching not to drink wine and to say that it is sin. Apostle Paul warned Christians, “do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink... Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!” These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. (Colossians 2:16, 20-23).
I have read very good arguments in this thread that the fruit of the vine at the Lord’s Supper was fermented because there were no grapes to be harvested at the Passover.
Here is something else to consider, something that I have already brought up in this thread… When the Corinthians re-enacted the Lord’s Supper, some of them got drunk (1Corinthians 11:21).
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
The Corinthians did not get drunk. The word "drunken" in that verse does not mean the Corinthians were drunk. Paul's rebuke was not for drunkenness, it was for stinginess... greed.
Do you honestly believe Paul would have told them to go home and get drunk?
Also, the Corinthians were not observing the Lord's Supper when they were being greedy. Paul told them that... "this is not the Lord's Supper".
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How in the world do you come up with THAT??? It's not the meaning of "drunken" at all!!!!!! It's the Greek word "methyo" which DOES mean drunken - not stingy.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Methuo means "to drink to intoxication", yes. But it also means "drink well"
It is the same word used in John 2, "when men have well drunk".
Those Corinthians were drinking well, and in their act of drinking well, they were neglecting the saints that were thirsty.
IOW, the Corinthians Paul was rebuking were stingy and that is what Paul was rebuking them for... stinginess.