Flaws of Calvinism

[Marooncat79]

You mean beside making God out to be worse than Satan in arbitrary cruelty and injustice?

It's depravity, not total depravity.
It's conditional (based on faith, not works) election, not unconditional election.
It's unlimited atonement, not limited atonement.
It's resistible grace, not irresistible grace.
It's preservation of the saints, not perseverance of the saints.

Hmm. Those are MABTS comments

 

[AustinC]

That's for sure. But it looks like those from the opposite isle question God's fairness. C.S. Lewis --no evangelical, much less a Calvinist wrote a book called God In The Dock. People want to put the Lord on the witness stand as a defendant and answer to man. Romans 9:20 and following puts the kibosh to that.

Job wanted to question God regarding the evil that had befallen him. When God showed up, it was God asking all the questions and Job repenting.

One does not control the Judge (or the King). The Judge controls the court room. The Judge says what happens and doesn't happen. The Judge asks the questions, the victim answers.

How foolish we are to think we will command God and call Him unfair if He doesn't choose according to our thinking. What a low view of God such thinking is. It lifts man above his station and seeks equality with God.

 

[Van]

Clearly you do not recall what I have written (several times) on this topic. So here you are again, with a few additions.
Matthew 23:13, KJV. 'But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men..........' Let's pause there for a moment before continuing. Do you really believe that it is possible for anyone to shut up the kingdom of heaven so that no one can enter? Yes or no? If so, that person is God rather than Yahweh. Look at Revelation 3:7. 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens.' The idea that these scribes and Pharisees can frustrate the plans of Almighty God is ridiculous.
Now let's continue:
'.............For ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.' Again, let's be clear. If these people can stop others entering the kingdom, then whether God 'credits their faith as righteousness' or not, He has been overruled. He is not Almighty God. But lets look at a somewhat similar passage.
Matthew 3:13-14, KJV. 'Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him................' John the Baptist forbade the Lord Jesus Christ to be baptized by him. So Jesus wasn't baptized. Is that right? Of course not! there was no possibility of JTB or anyone else frustrating the will of God the Son. The NKJV puts it better, but in order to convey the correct meaning it has to add some extra words. 'And John tried to prevent Him..........' 'Tried to' is not in the Greek text. But this is what happened with the scribes and Pharisees; they forbade people to come to Christ and did everything in their power to keep them from doing so. But the Lord Jesus Christ is going to build His Church and the very gates of hell will not prevail against it; how much less religious bigots!

When our Lord uttered the word of Matthew 23:13, He probably had an instance in mind. In John 9 we read of a man born blind whom the Lord Jesus healed. The Pharisees interrogated him vigorously, denounced our Lord as a sinner and when they could not dissuade him, they excommunicated him. But all their efforts did no good. He didn't find Jesus; He found him (John 9:35-38).

One other point I need to make. In Mark 5:35-36, Jairus is told that his daughter has died. 'As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, He said to the ruler of the synagogue, "Do not be afraid; only believe." What He did not add was, "But of course, that will only help if the Father credits your faith as righteousness." Van, your Gospel is no Gospel at all. In order to be saved, you require dead people to make themselves alive, blind people to see the truth, deaf people to hear the Gospel, and the lame to come to Jesus in their own strength. But even that may not be enough! God is going to decide whether He will credit their faith as righteousness. It is the very epitome of works salvation. I thank God it isn't true.

'Abraham believed God and it was accounted to Him for righteousness.' But even that faith was a gift to Abraham. 'Your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham....... dwelt on the other side of the River in old times; and they served other gods. Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him through all the land of Canaan......etc.' God did not wait for an unregenerate Abraham to come to Him, He 'took' Abraham and led him. Everything that Abraham had was a gift from God, including his faith. 'For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you act as if you had not received it?' (1 Corinthians 4:7).

1) Does Van believe the Bible means what it says? Yes
2) To claim doing something allowed by God means the doer is God is an absurdity.
3) Obviously God's plan allows people to believe or not believe, thus the claim only those compelled to believe is fiction.
4) Another absurdity, this prevention occurs (it seems to me) before God credits the person's faith.
5) The absurd claim God is overruled when people do not believe is of course fictional. Here the falsehood of God choosing those who do not believe is a straight-up nullification of James 2:5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
6) Next we get God carrying out His plan over the objections of a human, as proof God's plan is Calvinism! Hogwash
7) Once again the idiotic claim that God does not determine who believes and who does not is made. These assertions that God bases His action on faith which He chooses not to credit as righteousness constitutes falsehood piled on absurdity.
8) Martin you inability to accept what the Bible says is not Van's fault.
9) Who places individuals into Christ? God or the individual? God! Who makes they alive, (regenerates them)? God or the individual? God! So is Van's view that the individual makes him or herself alive? Nope, so yet another straight-up falsehood by a Calvinist defending false doctrine.
10) God crediting our faith as righteousness is a work of God. But once again the Calvinist makes the opposite claim.
11) Scripture says God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness, but the Calvinist says God did not! Go figure.
12) Individuals "receive" the gospel and put their faith in it. No where does scripture suggest the absurdity that God instilled our faith but it is unrighteous, so God then needs to credit it. Also why would God say oh you of little faith. Why does God instill unrighteous faith or little faith? He does not! The whole concept is unbiblical hogwash.

Once again it has been shown from scripture that the Calvinists have no answer for Matthew 23:13.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1) Does Van believe the Bible means what it says? Yes
2) To claim doing something allowed by God means the doer is God is an absurdity.

Have I ever suggested that Van does not believe that the Bible means what it says? No.
Have I ever suggested that Van does not have any idea what the Bible says? Yes.
Am I going to carry on trying to reason with him. No. I am quite happy with what I wrote in my last post.

 

[JesusFan]

1) Does Van believe the Bible means what it says? Yes
2) To claim doing something allowed by God means the doer is God is an absurdity.
3) Obviously God's plan allows people to believe or not believe, thus the claim only those compelled to believe is fiction.
4) Another absurdity, this prevention occurs (it seems to me) before God credits the person's faith.
5) The absurd claim God is overruled when people do not believe is of course fictional. Here the falsehood of God choosing those who do not believe is a straight-up nullification of James 2:5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
6) Next we get God carrying out His plan over the objections of a human, as proof God's plan is Calvinism! Hogwash
7) Once again the idiotic claim that God does not determine who believes and who does not is made. These assertions that God bases His action on faith which He chooses not to credit as righteousness constitutes falsehood piled on absurdity.
8) Martin you inability to accept what the Bible says is not Van's fault.
9) Who places individuals into Christ? God or the individual? God! Who makes they alive, (regenerates them)? God or the individual? God! So is Van's view that the individual makes him or herself alive? Nope, so yet another straight-up falsehood by a Calvinist defending false doctrine.
10) God crediting our faith as righteousness is a work of God. But once again the Calvinist makes the opposite claim.
11) Scripture says God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness, but the Calvinist says God did not! Go figure.
12) Individuals "receive" the gospel and put their faith in it. No where does scripture suggest the absurdity that God instilled our faith but it is unrighteous, so God then needs to credit it. Also why would God say oh you of little faith. Why does God instill unrighteous faith or little faith? He does not! The whole concept is unbiblical hogwash.

Once again it has been shown from scripture that the Calvinists have no answer for Matthew 23:13.

Does van still deny eternal Hell, and Pauline Justification?

 

[Van]

Does van still deny eternal Hell, and Pauline Justification?

Does the Servant of the Lord still deny Hades and Gehenna, and Pauline Justification via the washing of regeneration?

Those that ask questions implying false doctrines are held by others are engaging in demonic behavior.

 

[Van]

1) Does Van believe the Bible means what it says? Yes
2) To claim doing something allowed by God means the doer is God is an absurdity.
3) Obviously God's plan allows people to believe or not believe, thus the claim only those compelled to believe is fiction.
4) Another absurdity, the Matthew 23:13 prevention occurs (it seems to me) before God credits the person's faith.
5) The absurd claim God is overruled when people do not believe is of course fictional. Here the falsehood of God choosing those who do not believe is a straight-up nullification of James 2:5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
6) Next we get God carrying out His plan over the objections of a human, as proof God's plan is Calvinism! Hogwash
7) Once again the idiotic claim that God does not determine who believes and who does not is made. These assertions that God bases His action on faith which He chooses not to credit as righteousness constitutes falsehood piled on absurdity.
8) Martin you inability to accept what the Bible says is not Van's fault.
9) Who places individuals into Christ? God or the individual? God! Who makes they alive, (regenerates them)? God or the individual? God! So is Van's view that the individual makes him or herself alive? Nope, so yet another straight-up falsehood by a Calvinist defending false doctrine.
10) God crediting our faith as righteousness is a work of God. But once again the Calvinist makes the opposite claim.
11) Scripture says God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness, but the Calvinist says God did not! Go figure.
12) Individuals "receive" the gospel and put their faith in it. No where does scripture suggest the absurdity that God instilled our faith but it is unrighteous, so God then needs to credit it. Also why would God say oh you of little faith. Why does God instill unrighteous faith or little faith? He does not! The whole concept is unbiblical hogwash.

Once again it has been shown from scripture that the Calvinists have no answer for Matthew 23:13

 

[AustinC]

1) Does Van believe the Bible means what it says? Yes
2) To claim doing something allowed by God means the doer is God is an absurdity.
3) Obviously God's plan allows people to believe or not believe, thus the claim only those compelled to believe is fiction.
4) Another absurdity, the Matthew 23:13 prevention occurs (it seems to me) before God credits the person's faith.
5) The absurd claim God is overruled when people do not believe is of course fictional. Here the falsehood of God choosing those who do not believe is a straight-up nullification of James 2:5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
6) Next we get God carrying out His plan over the objections of a human, as proof God's plan is Calvinism! Hogwash
7) Once again the idiotic claim that God does not determine who believes and who does not is made. These assertions that God bases His action on faith which He chooses not to credit as righteousness constitutes falsehood piled on absurdity.
8) Martin you inability to accept what the Bible says is not Van's fault.
9) Who places individuals into Christ? God or the individual? God! Who makes they alive, (regenerates them)? God or the individual? God! So is Van's view that the individual makes him or herself alive? Nope, so yet another straight-up falsehood by a Calvinist defending false doctrine.
10) God crediting our faith as righteousness is a work of God. But once again the Calvinist makes the opposite claim.
11) Scripture says God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness, but the Calvinist says God did not! Go figure.
12) Individuals "receive" the gospel and put their faith in it. No where does scripture suggest the absurdity that God instilled our faith but it is unrighteous, so God then needs to credit it. Also why would God say oh you of little faith. Why does God instill unrighteous faith or little faith? He does not! The whole concept is unbiblical hogwash.

Once again it has been shown from scripture that the Calvinists have no answer for Matthew 23:13

Vanism 101

Despite Martin absolutely answering Matthew 23 very clearly, Van still claims no answer was given.

That is Vanism in a nutshell.

 

[Van]

Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf,

The above poorly translated verse is of course a favorite of Calvinism. Why? Because because they understand the word translated as "granted" in the NASB to mean "given via irresistible grace" ... to believe. Thus according to Calvinism, this verse supports the fiction of "total spiritual inability" of the lost.

But let us consider another meaning, that the word means "allowed" as in the lost of allowed to believe because of Christ! Without Christ, could we believe in Christ? Nope. Without Christ's suffering, could we suffer with Christ? Nope.

So a better, less encrypted translation would be "For to you it has been allowed because of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to partake in His suffering. For when we were spiritually baptized into Christ, we were baptized into His death (and sufferings).

 

[Van]

Vanism 101
Despite Martin absolutely answering Matthew 23 very clearly, Van still claims no answer was given.
That is Vanism in a nutshell.

As I said falsehood piled on Absurdity. I showed, false claim by false claim, there was no answer, but here goes yet another Calvinist disputing the obvious. Do they address Calvinism, or attempt to change the subject to something other than Calvinism? Yes they do, this time to the idiotic claim scripture is "Vanism."

Calvinism claims God does not allow the lost to seek God at any time. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

Calvinism claims the lost cannot be prevented by false teachings from entering the Kingdom. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

Calvinism claims God does not determine whose belief is valid and righteous, and those whose belief will not be credited. Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

 

[JesusFan]

Vanism 101

Despite Martin absolutely answering Matthew 23 very clearly, Van still claims no answer was given.

That is Vanism in a nutshell.

"Taint So"

 

[JesusFan]

Does the Servant of the Lord still deny Hades and Gehenna, and Pauline Justification via the washing of regeneration?

Those that ask questions implying false doctrines are held by others are engaging in demonic behavior.

Do you deny Hell is an eternal state, and when is one washing of regeneration?

 

[Jerome]

when is one washing of regeneration?

Is this you JesusFan/DaChaser1/Yeshua1? Why now a fourth personality here?

 

[Marooncat79]

There’s none that seek after God, no not one.

27 Bible verses about Not Seeking God

 

[Marooncat79]

1) Does Van believe the Bible means what it says? Yes. Nope. Not even

2) To claim doing something allowed by God means the doer is God is an absurdity.


3) Obviously God's plan allows people to believe or not believe, thus the claim only those compelled to believe is fiction.

Better, God commands all men to repent and believe the Gospel.

4) Another absurdity, the Matthew 23:13 prevention occurs (it seems to me) before God credits the person's faith.

previously explained

5) The absurd claim God is overruled when people do not believe is of course fictional. Here the falsehood of God choosing those who do not believe is a straight-up nullification of James 2:5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

God does not overrule. He gives man exactly what he wants. Hell!! God bestows mercy and grace upon the elect allowing them to repent and believe. Faith and repentance are often referred to as grace gifts.

6) Next we get God carrying out His plan over the objections of a human, as proof God's plan is Calvinism! Hogwash

Hmmm. I’m pretty sure ole Neb in the book of Daniel disagrees. I don’t think he ever meant to live as a wild animal for 7 yrs.

See Paul. Paul was “not seeking after God” on the Road


7) Once again the idiotic claim that God does not determine who believes and who does not is made. These assertions that God bases His action on faith which He chooses not to credit as righteousness constitutes falsehood piled on absurdity.

MODS- why is Van allowed to call Martin a slanderous name?

Second, even the devils believe!! Are they saved?


8) Martin you inability to accept what the Bible says is not Van's fault.

Van playing the martyr card here. Van needs to accept what Gods Word does say

9) Who places individuals into Christ? God or the individual? God! Who makes they alive, (regenerates them)? God or the individual? God! So is Van's view that the individual makes him or herself alive? Nope, so yet another straight-up falsehood by a Calvinist defending false doctrine.

by believing that man has the faith to believe denies God in many ways and elevates the individual to be the determiner of his own soul hence no longer at the mercy of God but at the mercy of himself


10) God crediting our faith as righteousness is a work of God. But once again the Calvinist makes the opposite claim.

Van, noone has ever said that here


11) Scripture says God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness, but the Calvinist says God did not! Go figure.

Van, this is untrue


12) Individuals "receive" the gospel and put their faith in it. No where does scripture suggest the absurdity that God instilled our faith but it is unrighteous, so God then needs to credit it. Also why would God say oh you of little faith. Why does God instill unrighteous faith or little faith? He does not! The whole concept is unbiblical hogwash.

He did say oh ye of little faith because we have none. Pretty obvious to a anyone. Godless faith is no faith. Faith is of God

Once again it has been shown from scripture that the Calvinists have no answer for Matthew 23:13

as before. This has been explained

 

[AustinC]

As I said falsehood piled on Absurdity. I showed, false claim by false claim, there was no answer, but here goes yet another Calvinist disputing the obvious. Do they address Calvinism, or attempt to change the subject to something other than Calvinism? Yes they do, this time to the idiotic claim scripture is "Vanism."

Calvinism claims God does not allow the lost to seek God at any time. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

Calvinism claims the lost cannot be prevented by false teachings from entering the Kingdom. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

Calvinism claims God does not determine whose belief is valid and righteous, and those whose belief will not be credited. Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

Vanism 2.0

 

[Van]

as before. This has been explained

Pay no attention to the unreferenced claims of our Calvinist posters, such as such and such was explained in the past.

Are there none who ever seek God? Nope, some seek God some of the time, such as in Matthew 23:13.

Calvinism claims God does not allow the lost to seek God at any time. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

Calvinism claims the lost cannot be prevented by false teachings from entering the Kingdom. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

Calvinism claims God does not determine whose belief is valid and righteous, and those whose belief will not be credited. Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24 demonstrates that Calvinism is false doctrine.

The T, U, L and I of the TULIP are false doctrines as this has been explained.

The Lost have limited spiritual ability, able to understand and receive spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

God chooses individuals for salvation through the conditional election of faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Christ died as a ransom for all, becoming the means of salvation for the whole world, all of humanity. 1 Timothy 2:6 and 1 John 2:2.

God's necessary grace needed to receive the gospel can be resisted, thus the lost have the choice of life or death, and God encourages them to choose life. Deuteronomy 30:19

Get ready for one subject change post after another.

 

[Marooncat79]

Are there none who ever seek God? Nope, some seek God some of the time, such as in Matthew 23:13.

Paul says there are none who seek after God not some

 

[Marooncat79]

No not one

 

[DaveXR650]

I think the point is that no one seeks God in a way that would really result in coming to Christ in saving faith. Nicodemus i a good example because we have it in John 3. He obviously was seeking God in a sense but had absolutely no understanding of what he needed. And Jesus flat out told him that he had to be born again. So Nicodemus, probably an example of natural man at his absolute best, educated in the scriptures, was totally ineffective by himself in truly finding God. Salvation really is all of God.