Flower Power

[Aaron]

Dear Rbell,

Thanks for the excellent post ! :thumbs: :applause:

Aaron should remember that none of the Pharasees,except for Nicodemus,are in heaven. They who judged others are awaiting the most fearsome judge of all: Jesus Christ!

In Christ,

Dale

And yet you pull out all the stops when it comes to judging me. You're guilty of everything of which you falsely accuse me. Put that in your drum and beat it.

Were you elected of the president of the Adhominem Group Against Aaron? You focus on only one thing in your posts. Me.

In fact, you, tiny, and rbell have yet to counter anything I've said with any kind of Scripture or a principle derived therefrom. And I really don't blame you. Anytime you do engage me in an argument you find that none of your arbitrary presuppostions have any foundation. That the Scriptures really do not say what you assert that they say. You're revealed to be forming an entire theology on a host of unsubstantiated assumptions and vain imagination.

In short, you get whopped but good.

It's gotta hurt. You have nothing. None of you. Nothing at all, and so you're forced to resort to attacking me personally and twisting my words. You have no other recourse. No refuge. And I'm delighted! :thumbs:

 

[Aaron]

Do you not know how to read... Here is what you said in the OP...



I kindly bolded your words so you can see this and not deny that you linked the two....

Besides that you are always putting down and belittling those of us that worship differently than you...

You owe us an apology for insinuting this....
This thread should never have been started by you, because it is a dishonest attempt to belittle your brothers and sisters...

You owe us an apology.

Whatever, Tim. I thought you meant I was saying the Flower Power CD's were CCM.

Now, if you'd like to show from Scripture that this form of worship is spiritual, then please, proceed.

 

[Aaron]

YOU...HAVE...GOT...TO...BE...KIDDING.

I'm almost speechless. Seriously, words fail me. These things are...found...in...the...scriptures...Aaron!!!!

Please, do go on. Where in the Scriptures exactly?

 

[tinytim]

Whatever, Tim. I thought you meant I was saying the Flower Power CD's were CCM.

Now, if you'd like to show from Scripture that this form of worship is spiritual, then please, proceed.

What's the point, we have been showing you for a couple years now, and you rebell against our admonition.

Read Psalms...
I think we will both agree that David truly worshipped...
oops... he danced too...
Oh, and raised hands...

OOPS, and played instruments....

Never mind... you might as well rip Psalms out of your Bible... since you apparently don't believe it.

I forgive you.

 

[D28guy]

Aaron,

I said...

"

I'm almost speechless. Seriously, words fail me. These things are...found...in...the...scriptures...Aaron!!!!"

And you said...

"Please, do go on. Where in the Scriptures exactly?"

Tim beat me to it...

"Read Psalms...
I think we will both agree that David truly worshipped...

oops... he danced too...

Oh, and raised hands...

OOPS, and played instruments...."

Mike

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

:laugh: Wow! I'm gone for 3 or 4 months, and ya'll are still at it! Some things never change. :thumbs:

 

[SBCPreacher]

:laugh: Wow! I'm gone for 3 or 4 months, and ya'll are still at it! Some things never change. :thumbs:

Welcome back!!!

 

[Dale McNamee]

Dear Aaron,

You wrote: " And yet you pull out all the stops when it comes to judging me. You're guilty of everything of which you falsely accuse me. Put that in your drum and beat it.

[ Aaron, you began the judgment game when you attempted to demonize CCM ( your favorite activity) by linking it to "Flower Power" music. Then,you made a statement regarding the response of "hippies" to CCM with no corroborating evidence that "hippies" are listening CCM. When you are asked by anyone who disagrees with your assertions,you trot out Col. 3: 16, then fail to define what style or genre of music God favors. Guilt by association doesn't work !

As I asked before, does God approve of hymns and music from 1400-1900 only ? Or your choice in music only ? Where is that explicitly written in the Bible ? You have yet to answer those questions.

Was Paul speaking of the music of Josquin,Monteverdi,Byrd,
Gibbons,Purcell,Tallis,Palestrina,Bach,Haydn,John Newton,Issac Watts,Charles Wesley,Fanny Crosby,and Ira Sankey when he wrote Col 3:16 ? Did he listen tio Western Music as we know it ?

What was the music of Colossae in 53-55 A.D. ? Can you provide recordings of paeans and dithyrambs or links to them ?]

Were you elected of the president of the Adhominem Group Against Aaron? You focus on only one thing in your posts. Me.

[ Aaron,there is no "Adhominem Group Against Aaron" and I'm not the president. In YOUR MIND,perhaps there is.
My questions are not with you personally,but with your suppositions. If you don't want to answer the questions,don't make the allegations !]

In fact, you, tiny, and rbell have yet to counter anything I've said with any kind of Scripture or a principle derived therefrom. And I really don't blame you. Anytime you do engage me in an argument you find that none of your arbitrary presuppostions have any foundation. That the Scriptures really do not say what you assert that they say. You're revealed to be forming an entire theology on a host of unsubstantiated assumptions and vain imagination.

[Everything that you accuse Tim,Rbell,Eric B.,D28 Guy,etc.,and I can be also attributed to you.

The Scriptures are silent as to style or genre of music.
What it's not silent on is the condition of the worshipper's heart ! See Luke 18: 9-14,Matt.15: 7-9,18-20. There are 805 references in the Bible regarding the heart. So,what is really important to God, one's heart attitude or music ?

And you appeal to ancient Greek pagan philosophy when you can't find the defense of your views on music in Scripture.

You readily quote Col 3:16,but you should quote the passages that precede and follow it ( Col 3:5-17):

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: (all reside in the heart)


6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. (look at your closing paragraph below)

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. ]


In short, you get whopped but good.

[Again,in YOUR MIND perhaps.]

It's gotta hurt. You have nothing. None of you. Nothing at all, and so you're forced to resort to attacking me personally and twisting my words. You have no other recourse. No refuge. And I'm delighted! :thumbs: "

[ Aaron,you've completely "melted down" in this statement. As for "twisting your words",all we have done is quoted you verbatim from what you wrote,then ask you to explain it. Again,don't provoke contention and then not be willing to accept the consequences !

Also, in the light of Col.3:12-17 how does it show show the attributes listed ?

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;


13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Tim,Rbell,etc. and I aren't the ones who "melted down", but you did !

We're not "suffering",but you are !

I feel a great sadness for you and forgive you.]

In Christ,

Dale

 

[SBCPreacher]

It's gotta hurt. You have nothing. None of you. Nothing at all, and so you're forced to resort to attacking me personally and twisting my words. You have no other recourse. No refuge. And I'm delighted! :thumbs:

How sad. How miserable and sad.

 

[David Lamb]

Dear Rbell,

Thanks for the excellent post ! :thumbs: :applause:

Aaron should remember that none of the Pharasees,except for Nicodemus,are in heaven. They who judged others are awaiting the most fearsome judge of all: Jesus Christ!

In Christ,

Dale

I'm not defending Aaron's views here, nor am I trying to be pedantic (some people say I can manage that quite well without trying ), but there are other Pharisees than Nicodemus who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul was one, and others are mentioned in Acts 15.5:

5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."​

Some people think that Joseph of Arimathaea was also a Pharisee.

 

[Dale McNamee]

Dear David,

You wrote: " I'm not defending Aaron's views here, nor am I trying to be pedantic (some people say I can manage that quite well without trying ), but there are other Pharisees than Nicodemus who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul was one, and others are mentioned in Acts 15.5:

5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."​

Some people think that Joseph of Arimathaea was also a Pharisee. "

Thanks for mentioning them! :thumbs:

Nicodemus came quickly to mind as I wrote that response and I hadn't thought of the ones you mentioned.

And no,you're not being pedantic! :laugh:
Welcome to the Music Ministry board. :wavey:

Grab your helmet and DUCCCKKKK!

In Christ,

Dale

In Christ

 

[annsni]

Joshua - Welcome back! I pray you and your wife are well.

 

[rbell]

quite frankly, I'm ticked that someone finally worked the word "pedantic" into the BB before I did!

 

[tinytim]

quite frankly, I'm ticked that someone finally worked the word "pedantic" into the BB before I did!

Get over it!!!! :laugh:

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Thanks SBCPreacher and annsi! It's good to be back!

 

[Aaron]

Aaron, you began the judgment game when you attempted to demonize CCM ( your favorite activity) by linking it to "Flower Power" music.

I never said I wasn't judging these actions to either be good evil. We must judge them. I was simply pointing out that it was rather hypocritical of you to warn me about making judgments when you help yourself wholesale to the task when it comes to me personally. What's humorous is that your justification is "Well, YOU started it!" :laugh:

Then,you made a statement regarding the response of "hippies" to CCM with no corroborating evidence that "hippies" are listening CCM.

I didn't say they were listening to CCM. I said their responses to the music being advertised was what was being confused with worship in many churches today.

When you are asked by anyone who disagrees with your assertions,you trot out Col. 3: 16, then fail to define what style or genre of music God favors.

That's simply not true. I quote the aforementioned passage to prove that the Scriptures are not silent concerning musical styles. And when asked what the styles are, I show that inferences can be made about the general character of godly music.

Look up any of my old threads where this is discussed, and you will see that is true.

Guilt by association doesn't work !

I don't use the guilt by association argument, and I didn't use it here.

As I asked before, does God approve of hymns and music from 1400-1900 only ? Or your choice in music only ? Where is that explicitly written in the Bible ? You have yet to answer those questions.

Au contraire! I've answered that numerous times. It just hasn't sunk in. For the thousandth time, God's standards of decency and order are to be observed in all christian gatherings and activities (1 Cor. 14). As they are God's standards, they do not change from culture to culture. Excess and riot are prohibited. I've said this over and over.

The point is that everyone draws a line somewhere. Even you, and to do so, you must belie every argument you've made concerning the subject.

Was Paul speaking of the music of Josquin,Monteverdi,Byrd,

Gibbons,Purcell,Tallis,Palestrina,Bach,Haydn,John Newton,Issac Watts,Charles Wesley,Fanny Crosby,and Ira Sankey when he wrote Col 3:16 ? Did he listen tio Western Music as we know it ?

What was the music of Colossae in 53-55 A.D. ? Can you provide recordings of paeans and dithyrambs or links to them ?

See above. Discriptions of the general character of these styles exist in ancient literature, and some music lessons have been discovered. Ancient notation has been deciphered as well. In fact, a Ugaritic hymn dating back to 4000 BC has been deciphered and employs the diatonic, do-re-mi scale with harmony. Recordings of ancient notation are readily available.

Will I do your homework for you? No.

Aaron,there is no "Adhominem Group Against Aaron" and I'm not the president.

Duh! It's a sarcastic way of saying that you focus more on me than my arguments.

The Scriptures are silent as to style or genre of music.

Shot down in flames above.

What it's not silent on is the condition of the worshipper's heart ! See Luke 18: 9-14,Matt.15: 7-9,18-20. There are 805 references in the Bible regarding the heart. So,what is really important to God, one's heart attitude or music ?

The outward demeanor of worship is equally important, as 1 Cor. 11 and 14 show us.

And you appeal to ancient Greek pagan philosophy when you can't find the defense of your views on music in Scripture.

That's a lie. I've never appealed to Greek philosophy to establish the morality of anything, and you know it.

We're not "suffering",but you are !

I feel a great sadness for you and forgive you.

Well, let's see here. I'm accuse of being Pharisaical, and yet you commit the characteristic sin of the Pharisees, putting on a show of piety to so that you would look pious to your buddies.:applause:

Two thumbs way, way up for that performance, BTW. :thumbs: :thumbs:

But rest assured that I have have no emotional investment in this discussion.

 

[Aaron]

What's the point, we have been showing you for a couple years now. . .

*sigh* If that were only true...

Read Psalms...

I have

I think we will both agree that David truly worshipped...

I would agree that many Hebrews truly worshipped.

oops... he danced too...

Many Hebrews danced, but never in the Temple.

Oh, and raised hands...

Many Hebrews raised their hands, but not in response to the music.

OOPS, and played instruments....

They also chopped up animals, burned their guts and sprinkled their blood on the furniture of the Tabernacle.

Never mind... you might as well rip Psalms out of your Bible... since you apparently don't believe it.

I believe them. Look at my signature. As you can see, I also understand them. But ripping them out would be a far higher treatment than your exposition.

Tell me, if these shadows of the law are commandments to the church, why don't you see these things in any of the records of the early church? Why did the early fathers in almost one accord protest their use? Do you have a better understanding of them then they did? Was this generation given a new revelation in the '60's and '70's?

A good investment would be the Treasury of David by C.H. Spurgeon. (There's an online copy if you can't bear to part with some of your CD or hair-dye money.) See what he and the other contributors said about these things.

I forgive you.

For what? For offering you gold in exchange for your brass? Save it.

 

[tinytim]

*sigh* If that were only true...

I have
I would agree that many Hebrews truly worshipped.
Many Hebrews danced, but never in the Temple.
Many Hebrews raised their hands, but not in response to the music.

They also chopped up animals, burned their guts and sprinkled their blood on the furniture of the Tabernacle.

I believe them. Look at my signature. As you can see, I also understand them. But ripping them out would be a far higher treatment than your exposition.

Tell me, if these shadows of the law are commandments to the church, why don't you see these things in any of the records of the early church? Why did the early fathers in almost one accord protest their use? Do you have a better understanding of them then they did? Was this generation given a new revelation in the '60's and '70's?

A good investment would be the Treasury of David by C.H. Spurgeon. (There's an online copy if you can't bear to part with some of your CD or hair-dye money.) See what he and the other contributors said about these things.

For what? For offering you gold in exchange for your brass? Save it.

Why is it, people like you are always rude?

 

[Aaron]

Tim beat me to it...

Then see my response to tiny.

The commandments to use instruments in the Tabernacle came through David. They were used to accompany sacrifice and are inextricably connected with them. They were not employed in the synagogues for this reason.

And so it is with all the shadows of the law. Those who served the Tabernacle did so after a "carnal commandment," Heb. 7:16. But as Christ said, the time came when those who worship the Father must worship Him in spirit, which means that worship according to the law is not spiritual worship, but carnal.

So, again I ask, where in the Bible are the Christians jammin', dancin' and otherwise worshipping in the "new" way?

 

[Aaron]

Why is it, people like you are always rude?

Oh no you don't! You don't get to bail so easily. Not after you finally made an attempt to give a biblical argument to my premises. Answer my arguments.

And why is it that people like you always bail pretending to take the high road with their sickening displays of holier-than-thou piety? (Answer this question ONLY if you don't attend to argue with my exposition of the Scriptures.)