Flower Power

Aaron, you don't want to hear it, but you are quite often rude and condescending in some of your posts. It doesn't stregthen your argument.

 

Yeah! I had to work real hard to do that!

Heh! This BB thing is "Americanising" my English! :laugh:

 

and you'll find some in which I lost my cool...and I know of several times I apologized for such.

I never recall your apologizing for anything.

 

So, it's Ok to be rude to somebody if they were rude to you first?

 

And that's the Biblical approach?

 

Aaron,

Are you here because you see Christian brothers doing something you believe is Unbiblical and want to restore us in a spirit of humility, or are you just here to win an argument and show us that your music is better than our music?

 

Oh no... I am not bailing...:laugh:
I just went to bed last night.

If I understand you right, you believe we should have music the same way the early church did.. you alluded to this when you mentioned the protest of the early church fathers.... is this what you believe?

If so, then why just music... why not everything.
Our Baptistic worship today looks nothing like the early church...
They didn't set in pews, etc.
They didn't use bulletins, and have a order of service.

If I was to adapt your belief about music, I would do it right... I would go all the way, and not just half the way.
We would learn the same style of music the early church sang...
The same style Paul sang when he was in prison...
And you know what, it would sound alot like what the mid-east music sounds like today... It would definately not be European/western music.

Every since the dark ages, the European church ... (moved to America in colonial times) has had the controlling factor of what church is supposed to look like.

Times are changing. Other cultures are being empowered, and their way of worship is different from ours... How are we going to react?

Our way or the highway?

Or do we recognize the fact that God is bigger than our American/European/Western mindset? And that He welcomes worship from all parts of the globe... not just from the southern USA.

Tell me, what type of music should be in church...
Give me some examples of songs that you sing in church...

 

Dear Tim,

You wrote: "Oh no... I am not bailing...:laugh:
I just went to bed last night.

If I understand you right, you believe we should have music the same way the early church did.. you alluded to this when you mentioned the protest of the early church fathers.... is this what you believe?

If so, then why just music... why not everything.
Our Baptistic worship today looks nothing like the early church...
They didn't set in pews, etc.
They didn't use bulletins, and have a order of service.

If I was to adapt your belief about music, I would do it right... I would go all the way, and not just half the way.
We would learn the same style of music the early church sang...
The same style Paul sang when he was in prison...
And you know what, it would sound alot like what the mid-east music sounds like today... It would definately not be European/western music.

Every since the dark ages, the European church ... (moved to America in colonial times) has had the controlling factor of what church is supposed to look like.

Times are changing. Other cultures are being empowered, and their way of worship is different from ours... How are we going to react?

Our way or the highway?

Or do we recognize the fact that God is bigger than our American/European/Western mindset? And that He welcomes worship from all parts of the globe... not just from the southern USA.

Tell me, what type of music should be in church...
Give me some examples of songs that you sing in church... "

Excellent post! :thumbs: :thumbs:

Aaron has to answer these questions honestly,which he doesn't do. If you care to look at all his responses, he does the same thing,not really provide answers hoping that everyone who asks them will give up in frustration. Some "victory"...

But,he has the "courage" to condemn everyone else and then accuse us of "false piety" & hypocrisy when you and I said that we forgive him. And talk about being "holier than thou"! His words condemn no one but himself !

What Aaron also seems to forget is that all music (Western and Non-Western) has gone through many changes brought on by the discovery and development of musical literacy (actually assigning tones to the lines and spaces and writing music),chord structure,music theory,church & secular influences,musical instrument invention,societal change, influences by other cultures,etc.,that leads to the music (past & present) that we know today. See: http://www.classicfm.co.uk/Article.asp?id=215559&spid=9444

And here is a 5 part series on "Music Sacred & Profane" at Triablogue. Each one is quite lengthy, but edifying and enlightening:

http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2005/01/music-sacred-profane-1.html
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2005/01/music-sacred-profane-2.html
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2005/01/music-sacred-profane-3.html
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2005/01/music-sacred-profane-4.html
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2005/01/music-sacred-profane-5.html

From Part 1: " The proverbial "music of the spheres" is not a mere figure of speech, but alludes to a full-blown musical cosmology. On the pagan side, this goes back to Pythagoras, with his ontological numerology as well as his discovery of musical ratios. Plato, in the Timaeus (35-6; 41-2; 47c-e), turned this idea into a creation-myth. The idea received a more "scientific" underpinning with Ptolemy’s work on Harmonics, as well as Nichomachus (Handbook of Harmonics [Encheiridion harmonikes]).

Greek speculation was popularized by such Roman writers as Cicero ("Somnium Scipionis," De republica 6:18), Capella, Apuleius, and Macrobius (Commentarii in Somnium Scipionis).

On the Christian side, this outlook was baptized, popularized, and systematized by Augustine (De Musica), Ammonius, Boethius (De Institutione Musica; De Nuptiis Philogiae et Mercurii), and Cassiodorus (Variae; Expositio in psalterium). "

So, pagan Greek & Roman philosophy influenced the early church fathers' views on music and was accepted as Biblical ! Hmm....

Something to think about...

In Christ,

Dale

 

Dear Aaron,

You wrote: " Well, let's see here. I'm accuse of being Pharisaical, and yet you commit the characteristic sin of the Pharisees, putting on a show of piety to so that you would look pious to your buddies.:applause:

[ Obviously you didn't read Col 3:13-14:
"13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
No "show of piety" on my part.]

Two thumbs way, way up for that performance, BTW. :thumbs: :thumbs:

[ Thanks for the compliment!]

But rest assured that I have have no emotional investment in this discussion.

[Neither do I. I'm only interested in confronting erroneous teaching and the misuse of Scripture to "proof text" your mere opinions.

Also,if you don't have an emotional investment in the discussion,why do you go on ?]

In Christ,

Dale

 

Dear Aaron,

You wrote to Tim:

"A good investment would be the Treasury of David by C.H. Spurgeon. (There's an online copy if you can't bear to part with some of your CD or hair-dye money.) See what he and the other contributors said about these things.

Quote:
I forgive you.
For what? For offering you gold in exchange for your brass? Save it. "

Nice loving Christian sentiment...

Tell me,what passage from the Bible defended those comments,especially the bolded one ?

In Christ,

Dale

 

As I am going more grey, I am going to need more money for hair dye...
I think the series Aaron said I needed is in my e-sword program somewhere.

No actually, I want my hair pure white...
I only dye it when the kids dye it at VBS...

Next yr, I may shave it.
as a tribute to all the CCM artists out there with a bald head and a soul patch!!!

 

Dear Tim,

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In Christ,

Dale

 

Who knows, I might look something like my favorite drummer...


Andy from Casting Crowns...
I seen them in concert a couple yrs ago, Man, is he good.

 

Since you are a busy man... I realize this.... I just wanted to comment on this...

You started this thread.. so it is somewhat about you.
And since you want to teach us what is acceptable, then give us some examples...
Every good teacher knows they need to provide illustrations...
And since you say they are about "thus saith the Lord"..

Just where does the Lord say, Thou shalt not praise me with modern music?

BTW, I am still studying the music of the early church...
And nothing we sing today seems to sound like the stuff Jesus or Paul would sing...

Come on Aaron, give us some examples of music your church deems appropriate....

Our church sings the old hymns, the old camp meeting hymns, some Southern Gospel, and some Praise and Worship music... Sometimes we have solos of Casting Crowns, or Third Day songs...
We have a blended worship, and our church deems this appropriate...

And since you are not part of our church, condemn all you want... we don't care...
God is being Glorified, not Aaron.

 

You seem to have forgotten something important about interacting with people.

Luke 6:31

 

Dear Tim,

You wrote in response to Aaron:

" Since you are a busy man... I realize this.... I just wanted to comment on this...

You started this thread.. so it is somewhat about you.
And since you want to teach us what is acceptable, then give us some examples...
Every good teacher knows they need to provide illustrations...
And since you say they are about "thus saith the Lord"..

Just where does the Lord say, Thou shalt not praise me with modern music?

BTW, I am still studying the music of the early church...
And nothing we sing today seems to sound like the stuff Jesus or Paul would sing...

Come on Aaron, give us some examples of music your church deems appropriate....

Our church sings the old hymns, the old camp meeting hymns, some Southern Gospel, and some Praise and Worship music... Sometimes we have solos of Casting Crowns, or Third Day songs...
We have a blended worship, and our church deems this appropriate...

And since you are not part of our church, condemn all you want... we don't care...
God is being Glorified, not Aaron. "

Another excellent post !:thumbs: :thumbs:

I especially agree with your last paragraph. !

In Christ,

Dale

 

Re : Flower Power

Dear CC,

You wrote: "
Quote:
And concerning the "tit for tat" interactions. Is it right for me to answer some people in the manner in which they address me? There's a proverb that warns us that there's a danger of becoming "like them" if we do, but in some cases we must "lest they be wise after their own conceit." In a forum when the only interaction is the exchange of words, it's an effective weapon to reveal the conceit in what is being touted often as piety around here.

You seem to have forgotten something important about interacting with people.

Luke 6:31
Quote:
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

:thumbs:

To that I would add Col. 3: 8-15:

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

In Christ,

Dale