Foreknowledge

[Robert Snow]

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom. 8:29,30

In eternity past God knew who would freely respond to the Gospel of His Son. God called those, who He knew would believe; He justified them and predestinated them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

In doing this God is both sovereign and allows mankind to respond to His wonderful grace found in Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[annsni]

I don't see that in the Scripture. Yes, God knew people ahead of time and He knew what they would do but He didn't base His election on what we'd do. That's not then election. We were chosen not because of anything that we've done.

 

[Ruiz]

Rom. 8:29,30

In eternity past God knew who would freely respond to the Gospel of His Son. God called those, who He knew would believe; He justified them and predestinated them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

In doing this God is both sovereign and allows mankind to respond to His wonderful grace found in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Foreknowledge is never used in regards to actions, but to people. In other words, saying that God foresaw a particular action is not how the Bible uses this word. His foreknowledge is rooted in the person. Thus the word is much deeper and richer than merely foreseeing an action. A good section to read on this is in the Attributes of God by AW Pink.

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't see that in the Scripture. Yes, God knew people ahead of time and He knew what they would do but He didn't base His election on what we'd do. That's not then election. We were chosen not because of anything that we've done.

I agree with what you say here. Election, calling, all of it, none is conditional, but is instead unconditional, and all of grace.

 

[freeatlast]

Rom. 8:29,30

In eternity past God knew who would freely respond to the Gospel of His Son. God called those, who He knew would believe; He justified them and predestinated them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

In doing this God is both sovereign and allows mankind to respond to His wonderful grace found in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Scripture does not say what you said. While it does say that He foreknew, it does not say He knew who would respond so he He called those. It simply says He foreknew them. If God has to know who will accept before he ordains their salvation then He is not Sovereign. Your description makes Him subject to the person because He has to see who will accept before He elects them.

 

[webdog]

I don't see that in the Scripture. Yes, God knew people ahead of time and He knew what they would do but He didn't base His election on what we'd do. That's not then election. We were chosen not because of anything that we've done.

Partially true. The elect are believers in Christ, the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. The moment we are justified through faith we were also chosen and slain before the foundation of the world. Christ is referred to as THE Elect. Regardless of where you view faith coming from we are required to have faith, so this is something we do (and that never makes it a work)

 

[preacher4truth]

Faith is imparted to us via the Word of God, Romans 10:17, from where all things have come into being.

Faith is not something we do, it is something we've received via the Word of God.

 

[freeatlast]

Faith is imparted to us via the Word of God, Romans 10:17, from where all things have come into being.

Faith is not something we do, it is something we've received via the Word of God.

True but also true is we have to decide to accept that truth.
Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

 

[jbh28]

"For whom he did foreknow would come to him, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

the part in red is not in the passage.

It's "whom" not "what" he foreknew.

 

[Robert Snow]

What does "foreknow" mean? Doesn't it mean to know in advance?

 

[preacher4truth]

"For whom he did foreknow would come to him, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

the part in red is not in the passage.

It's "whom" not "what" he foreknew.

Exactly. Otherwise election is based upon works, or what we do, then we are rewarded, and it is no longer a gift.

 

[Robert Snow]

Exactly. Otherwise election is based upon works, or what we do, then we are rewarded, and it is no longer a gift.

Not true.

Since God decided to offer salvation to all of mankind, our obedience to His call is not a work at all.

 

[freeatlast]

What does "foreknow" mean? Doesn't it mean to know in advance?

Yes but it means He knew because He chose them, not chose them because He knew.

 

[preacher4truth]

Not true.

Since God decided to offer salvation to all of mankind, our obedience to His call is not a work at all.

What I said is absolutely true, and it is Scriptural.

If your child obeys you, is that a work? Of course it is. And it is a good work.

Gods Spirit enabled you, brought you to life. He did all the saving, none of it was you or what you did. No matter how you construe it, your view of obedience is something you did, which necessitates it to be a work.

Have you consulted some theological works, definitions, on foreknowledge?

 

[freeatlast]

Not true.

Since God decided to offer salvation to all of mankind, our obedience to His call is not a work at all.

Yes our obediance is a work, but it is not the work that saves. It is grace that saves through faith.
Even faith is a work, but it is not the work that saves, it is the grace that saves through the faith.

1Thess 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2Thess 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

 

[matt wade]

Have you consulted some theological works, definitions, on foreknowledge?

Yes, Robert, I think you also need to make sure you study the original language on this one as well. If you haven't done these things, you simply need to stop posting on here. Remember, this isn't a public forum, this is Luke2427's domain and we must learn in silence.

 

[Robert Snow]

Yes but it means He knew because He chose them, not chose them because He knew.

Can anyone prove this with scripture? Show me a definitive passage that states that God's foreknowledge is based on His election and not on our obedience to the Gospel?

 

[Greektim]

Rom. 8:29,30

In eternity past God knew who would freely respond to the Gospel of His Son. God called those, who He knew would believe; He justified them and predestinated them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

In doing this God is both sovereign and allows mankind to respond to His wonderful grace found in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Unless grace is an actuality not a potentiality. Grace is not something to respond to but something God has actualized in the lives of the elect.

 

[Ruiz]

I think my initial statements supports this idea that it was not foresite of an action. There is no evidence or place in Scripture where foreknew is talking about foreknowing a verb (like a decision) but foreknowing a noun, a person.

 

[freeatlast]

Can anyone prove this with scripture? Show me a definitive passage that states that God's foreknowledge is based on His election and not on our obedience to the Gospel?

Let me make sure I understand you here. Are you saying that God looked down through time and history to see who would believe and then He ordained them?