Former coach of the year fired from Christian school for out-of-wedlock pregnancy

[gb93433]

From post #48, "God expects Christians to live by a much higher standard than the world, and someone working for a church or Christian school should not be having sex or babies outside of marriage. I believe they did the right thing. A pregnant teacher in a Christian school would be showing a very unChristian-like testimony to the unbelievers and could bring a reproach upon that school."

How does God using two murderers compare to man dismissing an adulteress?

 

[mandym]

From post #48, "God expects Christians to live by a much higher standard than the world, and someone working for a church or Christian school should not be having sex or babies outside of marriage. I believe they did the right thing. A pregnant teacher in a Christian school would be showing a very unChristian-like testimony to the unbelievers and could bring a reproach upon that school."

How does God using two murderers compare to man dismissing an adulteress?

So is it your position that an adulteress should go left unchecked? Again what is your point?

 

[gb93433]

So is it your position that an adulteress should go left unchecked? Again what is your point?

Not at all, but to suggest that two murderers are any better to lead a group of people than an adulteress lead a athletic team seems strange. I am unable to see where God dismissed Moses and David but in fact He used them.

 

[mandym]

This statement:

Not at all,

Is contradictory to this statement:

but to suggest that two murderers are any better to lead a group of people than an adulteress lead a athletic team seems strange. I am unable to see where God dismissed Moses and David but in fact He used them.

And very sad to boot. I wonder what took you so long to get to the point. I do not believe it is safe to assume that we must use what God did then as an example of what we should do with this woman now.

In speaking of sexual immorality Paul wrote that the church was to turn over unrepentant believers to Satan I Cor 5:5.

By thw ay thanks for the cat and mouse game. I love chasing down the less than obvious point made by people who are afraid to get to the point.

 

[gb93433]

I wonder what took you so long to get to the point. I do not believe it is safe to assume that we must use what God did then as an example of what we should do with this woman now.

Why not?

By thw ay thanks for the cat and mouse game. I love chasing down the less than obvious point made by people who are afraid to get to the point.

I assumed that you had thought about it more. Was I wrong?

 

[mandym]

Why not?

I already answered that.

I assumed that you had thought about it more. Was I wrong?

What you were wrong about is that anyone should read your mind.

 

[fortytworc]

Think that that sex out of wedlock would be confessed by both to god, and agree to stop doing it now!

Think that the pregency become public and known by church was why they decided to pubically confess!

I think that's great but I really wonder if they would have felt a need to confess if she did not become pregnant. How many times does it happen that someone confesses to that sin without a child?

A natural thing to wonder these things, but we aren't the ones to see the hearts. Probably best if I keep my wondering to myself. My tendency is to 'think out loud' too much.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Not at all, but to suggest that two murderers are any better to lead a group of people than an adulteress lead a athletic team seems strange. I am unable to see where God dismissed Moses and David but in fact He used them.

...and precisely why you don't get it.....both David and Moses were not "dismissed" as you claim...they SUFFERED CONSEQUENCES!!! for their actions....you seem to think that this woman should not. There might often be differences between the natural or earthly consequences for our actions and willful direct disobedience to God for transgressions of his law that He holds us accountable for, in case you haven't realized that yet. Admit it....you brought them up, thinking it somehow proved a point you wanted to make, and you get exactly the opposite. They both repented and this woman has not apparently...in fact she is filing a lawsuit. And if you think that comparisons...in the eyes of God, as he is revealed in Scripture.....make signifigant distinctions between sins like adultery, and sins like murder, I suggest you read the Bible...Start from Genesis 1:1....go to the end...your Hamartiology leaves much to be desired.

 

[agedman]

...and precisely why you don't get it.....both David and Moses were not "dismissed" as you claim...they SUFFERED CONSEQUENCES!!! for their actions....you seem to think that this woman should not. There might often be differences between the natural or earthly consequences for our actions and willful direct disobedience to God for transgressions of his law that He holds us accountable for, in case you haven't realized that yet. Admit it....you brought them up, thinking it somehow proved a point you wanted to make, and you get exactly the opposite. They both repented and this woman has not apparently...in fact she is filing a lawsuit. And if you think that comparisons...in the eyes of God, as he is revealed in Scripture.....make signifigant distinctions between sins like adultery, and sins like murder, I suggest you read the Bible...Start from Genesis 1:1....go to the end...your Hamartiology leaves much to be desired.

Very good post!!!

I would add a few neglected details that this thread has not seemed to display.

Dr. Ron Taylor was the headmaster of a Dallas Christian school back some decades ago (in the 70's), he was also a principle of public schools and assistant superintendent of Garland ISD. He retired from the public school system and sometime later was asked to headmaster the private school in Rockwall. He is a man of outstanding character. His wife's name is Elizabeth and during the Vietnam war his fellow soldiers were taken back that their sargent would actually receive letters from "Elizabeth Taylor." :love2:

I won't speak about the young lady who messed up her life. It isn't wise to defend her or hold her up for shame.

What I will state is that the actions by the school were just and legal.

The school is not directly affiliated with any church or denomination.

 

[gb93433]

.. And if you think that comparisons...in the eyes of God, as he is revealed in Scripture.....make signifigant distinctions between sins like adultery, and sins like murder, I suggest you read the Bible...Start from Genesis 1:1....go to the end...your Hamartiology leaves much to be desired.

Your point is that murder is less significant than committing fornication?

When you read your Bible you will notice that in the book of James they are called adulteresses.

 

[Jerome]

The 'headmaster' is touting the recent Supreme Court decision [Lutheran teachers are considered clergy, so their dismissals are not judicable] in predicting that this teacher's claim will fail too. They are going to have to argue that she is a minister.

The school is not directly affiliated with any church or denomination.

Oops. The recent Supreme Court case hinged on the fact that the teacher had been designated by the Lutheran congregation as an ordained minister to teach in its school.

 

[agedman]

Your point is that murder is less significant than committing fornication?

When you read your Bible you will notice that in the book of James they are called adulteresses.

I get the sense that you desire to find some excuse or erasure of sin in favor of the young lady.

Would that be accurate?

 

[convicted1]

There was a contract that she signed (the moral clause) and she violated that contract. End of story, IMO.

I agree with you Sissy. In sports, when athletes sign these "megabucks" contracts, most, if not all, have stipulations that they can not do certain things. If they get hurt while doing this, it can void the contract out. This scenario here is no different, IMO. She broke the stipulation(moral clause), and she voided her contract herself.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Your point is that murder is less significant than committing fornication?

When you read your Bible you will notice that in the book of James they are called adulteresses.

Less signifigant?....no, of course not, and I think you know I don't think that. Attempting to make comparisons as you are, however is invalid...What I am saying is that you imply/seem to believe that adultery or fornication is less signifigant, it is not..it is neither/nor.
As far as God is concerned: As far as His condemnation of sin, the penalty for sin, and the extent to which His holiness is personally offended anyway.
As far as mankind is concerned.....no, but it is not mankind's personal likes/dislikes, preferences or point of view about which is better or worse respectively. Man thinks murder to be inherently worse than fornication, God does not. The entire world suffers under a vicious curse because 1 man ate a fruit God told him not to eat. You will notice that your David for example, when pleading for forgiveness, after power-raping Bathsheba and murdering her husband says in the Psalm "against THEE and THEE ONLY have I sinned..."

Furthermore.....David, again, deals with the above crime with the death of his child....He conducts a census, however, and 70 some odd thousand Israelites die in a plague as punishment....Do you think God is offended in precisely the same way for sin as we are? In our mind that seems unfair....To God...perfectly legit. Considering, then....do you think this woman wants to roll the dice and find out what God thinks appropriate consequences should be? My suggestion for her would be cut your losses, and go work at some godless government school loaded with those who could care less and will probably pay her far better anyway.

 

[freeatlast]

They have made the correct choice. It is too bad that her morality did not meet her profession and she is still in rebellion about the consequences she has brought on herself.

 

[freeatlast]

They did the right thing. I hope they stick with their decision and do not back peddle because of pressure.

 

[gb93433]

They did the right thing. I hope they stick with their decision and do not back peddle because of pressure.

While I believe they did the right thing at the scholol what would you suggest they do in dealing with her outside of the school issue. I had an issue that came up in a church I was pastoring. A child was caught stealing on a military base, was truant at school, caught stealing in town, and then vandalized the church. When I phoned the police because someone had called they went directly to the kids home and within minutes I received several calls. Someone asked if I suspected anyone. I was told by a youth worker that he was the last person in the building. The parents had asked me for help and I told them I would do everything I could. I did not allow that young person to disrespect me but I also took an interest in him too. To make a long story short the parents did not like what I did and the deacons did not like how the youngster drew attention as if to say it would damage him and the church. The news seemed to spread fast and people in the city told me I did the right thing and that is what the kid needed. I noticed after that the kid started having more respect for me. Today he seems to be doing well.

So my question is (while it is easy to name what the lady did as wrong and is certainly not a very good example in terms of her morality) what is the best course of action to take to lead to repentance and restoration and help her to grow from this action? If one were to ask the people in the street I they would see most churches as legalistic and not loving. Too often the church is seen as abiding by a set of rules.

For example when a relative of mine who was not a believer at the time asked me about a church he was going to and described what he saw as immature and legalistic I told him to leave and go to another church immediately. Even some simple simple passages they found a way to distort and my relative would have a much better interpretation simply because he was reading the Bible. When he left to go to another church many things were no longer in the way and within a few weeks he became a believer and has been very involved in ministry since.

Since God is a God of mercy and judgment how can that be demonstrated in this case?

 

[HeirofSalvation]

So my question is (while it is easy to name what the lady did as wrong and is certainly not a very good example in terms of her morality) what is the best course of action to take to lead to repentance and restoration and help her to grow from this action? If one were to ask the people in the street I they would see most churches as legalistic and not loving. Too often the church is seen as abiding by a set of rules.

I would say that you are viewing this from the lense of a local Church body in lieu of simply that of a school. You are quite right that, speaking of a Chuch, it would be most incumbent to seek to lead her to repentance and restoration...as a school, however, they have a different mission as it were...Their goal is primarily to help the KIDS!! grow, not the teacher. Your heart is definitely in the right place, and you are correct that a Church shouldn't simply turn their back on her, but there are two different missions involved here.

If one were to ask the people in the street I they would see most churches as legalistic and not loving.

There is truth to this, but at the same time...I think we (as Christians) too often assume that people..especially non-believers are being intellectually honest with themselves...Remember how you were prior to becoming a believer??? Any excuse you could lay ahold of to take the "blame" as it were for continuing in sin was shifted away from oneself and towards the object of your discontent...namely...Christianity. This is often, I think, little more than the realization by non-believers (normally under some conviction) that this is an excuse that has worked before....and it will work again. Note how avante garde it has become to call all believers "hypocrites" As if it had anything to do with the content and truth of the message they were preaching, and as if it actually were the case that the vast bulk of believers were in fact "hypocrites". Much of this accusation will go away if we stop buying it from them and agreeing with them when they make it

 

[gb93433]

Their goal is primarily to help the KIDS!! grow, not the teacher. Your heart is definitely in the right place, and you are correct that a Church shouldn't simply turn their back on her, but there are two different missions involved here.

My point is that what they do with her demonstrates how the children view authority. One can be an authority and also demonstrate mercy. How is that best done in this case?

There is truth to this, but at the same time...I think we (as Christians) too often assume that people..especially non-believers are being intellectually honest with themselves...Remember how you were prior to becoming a believer???

Liars are everywhere. If you have been in business you would get a real eye-opener as you notice how some in the church conduct themselves. Just look at slavery and segregation from the past. I am not really any different in that I have always sought to be honest in all my dealings. As for me there has always been a real sense of right and wrong. One of the first things I noticed among believers is wasting food and how fat some of the preachers were. They discounted it as spirituality as most important. Now I see it as revealing their true spiritual condition inside--laziness.

Much of this accusation will go away if we stop buying it from them and agreeing with them when they make it.

It is not about any accusation but about doing what is right. People including children are watching as an example. I wish that you could have heard the stories I heard from students who sat in my office and I listened to them talk about their experiences with church. Probably the single most thing I heard was about church fighting. I am amazed today at how many young people whom I know personally who come from Christian homes that are not even attending church. I have discussions with them that indicate they are interested in church but not the kind of church from the previous generations of power and control mixed in with a practical atheism. They want to see Christianity at work. My response to them has always been to ask the question, "How are you making a difference?" They know the answer to that but they also know the answer is not what their past has told them.

 

[freeatlast]

While I believe they did the right thing at the scholol what would you suggest they do in dealing with her outside of the school issue. I had an issue that came up in a church I was pastoring. A child was caught stealing on a military base, was truant at school, caught stealing in town, and then vandalized the church. When I phoned the police because someone had called they went directly to the kids home and within minutes I received several calls. Someone asked if I suspected anyone. I was told by a youth worker that he was the last person in the building. The parents had asked me for help and I told them I would do everything I could. I did not allow that young person to disrespect me but I also took an interest in him too. To make a long story short the parents did not like what I did and the deacons did not like how the youngster drew attention as if to say it would damage him and the church. The news seemed to spread fast and people in the city told me I did the right thing and that is what the kid needed. I noticed after that the kid started having more respect for me. Today he seems to be doing well.

So my question is (while it is easy to name what the lady did as wrong and is certainly not a very good example in terms of her morality) what is the best course of action to take to lead to repentance and restoration and help her to grow from this action? If one were to ask the people in the street I they would see most churches as legalistic and not loving. Too often the church is seen as abiding by a set of rules.

For example when a relative of mine who was not a believer at the time asked me about a church he was going to and described what he saw as immature and legalistic I told him to leave and go to another church immediately. Even some simple simple passages they found a way to distort and my relative would have a much better interpretation simply because he was reading the Bible. When he left to go to another church many things were no longer in the way and within a few weeks he became a believer and has been very involved in ministry since.

Since God is a God of mercy and judgment how can that be demonstrated in this case?

I would first point out that by her own words she is not repentant. She claims she has a different interpretation. Second by going to court she shows she is still in disregard for the word of God by suing them over this instead of going through church channels as commanded in 1Cor.

That being said as to your question about how to deal with her outside the contract issue I would hope that they offered her counseling and prayer with an opportunity to repent, and they may very well have done that, we simply do not know.