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Free Will and Loss of Salvation
- Thread starter Reformed1689
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Um, you might want to check your facts on that.
CalTech
Active Member
Excuse my "ignorance" but what does L.A. and T.D stand for?
Thank you.....
Lord bless you....
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
I would like to bring up some scripture that supports what I think you are trying to express;
Joh 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
Joh 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Also:
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
These are but a few which reveals those that have turned away, or turned back in not following Him, were truly never Born of Him, and by Him.....so therefore they were never truly saved, anyone who is "saved" by their own self-willed salvation have never been saved, they were "religious" by the flesh, and not by the Spirit of the Lord.....
I believe in this context it means:
Limited Atonement - Jesus shed blood only ransoms those who believe.
Total Depravity - All humans are born corrupted in every area, physical, mental, and spiritual. There is no area in which the curse of Adam's fall does not touch all humanity.
CalTech
Active Member
Thank you! Much appreciated!
LIMITED Atonement:
I believe that ALL who are too be saved shall be saved!
Total Depravity:
Absolutely, when a person is dead, it will take the Resurrection Power of the Lord to raise that person from being Spiritually dead! When He speaks the Word to bring forth Life, it is done, and nothing can hinder the working Power of His Holy Spirit!
Lord bless you!
Note the same false charges are hurled time and again. But still no on topic content. Yet a denial of the obvious. False teachers post twaddle.
Can anyone placed by God into Christ jump ship? Of course not. Does that mean someone could not ponder that thought? Nope. We operate within the confines God allows, thus we have limits to our will. Scripture says once we are actually "born anew" our faith is protected such that we will always love Christ. (See 1 Peter 1:3-5)
And pay no attention to the idea that either we either are unable to have autonomous thoughts, or we can have no limits imposed by God on our autonomous thoughts. Both those false views are silly, the mindless screed of false teachers.
Lewis Campbell
New Member
DOES THIS TAKE AWAY MANS FRE CHOICE WHEN HE IS SAVED?
Lewis, what unshackled choice do you think men have in regard to God's work of salvation?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Matthew 10:22 ESV
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
2 Timothy 2:12 ESV
If we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;
This verse supports my belief in the supreme importance of abiding in Christ. It supports my argument.
Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Out of context verses mean nothing.
Do you understand God as a covenant making God with a covenant people? This goes with Paul's words "not all Israel is Israel." It also goes with Paul's comments about the wild olive branch being grafted in. Here in this passage about the vine and the branches we have to understand how Jesus is connecting this with covenant people. This also gives us pause to try understand how loved ones and church attenders fit into covenant, yet may not be saved.
Jesus is talking about the new covenant in His blood. Thrown into the fire represents the second death, eternal separation from God.
Please3 provide us with support for the opposing view.
Not in the analogy of the vine.
The OP:
There are some, I suppose, that think they open their own heart, mind, soul, and accept the offer of Salvation as one accepts a sandwich, or that it fills that God specific empty space when they choose God, or that they may at will come to the Savior in their own time, ....
And there are those (especially Baptist) who take that view that God, through His eternal might, will not release those who have come to Him.
Perhaps such is the thinking more linked to performance, be it in some "to do" scheme, or expectation of the tangible, that if one starts off by engaging the flesh to attain salvation, then does it not seem reasonable that one must maintain that relationship by fleshly duty?
That if one is to in some manner acquire God's attention in order to attain salvation, then the maintenance of such, and the eternal security of such cannot be without human effort.
Does not the Scriptures state, "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone." and therefore, it all relies upon human effort - even eternity, for only "those who endure to the end shall be saved."
And does not the Scriptures state that:
The presentation of this post is to accurately portray the thinking of some who hold to human effort is necessary thinking.
There are some, I suppose, that think they open their own heart, mind, soul, and accept the offer of Salvation as one accepts a sandwich, or that it fills that God specific empty space when they choose God, or that they may at will come to the Savior in their own time, ....
And there are those (especially Baptist) who take that view that God, through His eternal might, will not release those who have come to Him.
Perhaps such is the thinking more linked to performance, be it in some "to do" scheme, or expectation of the tangible, that if one starts off by engaging the flesh to attain salvation, then does it not seem reasonable that one must maintain that relationship by fleshly duty?
That if one is to in some manner acquire God's attention in order to attain salvation, then the maintenance of such, and the eternal security of such cannot be without human effort.
Does not the Scriptures state, "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone." and therefore, it all relies upon human effort - even eternity, for only "those who endure to the end shall be saved."
And does not the Scriptures state that:
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
The presentation of this post is to accurately portray the thinking of some who hold to human effort is necessary thinking.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No man can pluck them out of my father's hand, I lose none that are given to me and will raise them up on the last day. Let's just start there.
No, as then our "free will" is based upon our new nature in Christ now!
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