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Free Will and Loss of Salvation

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George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
ask them what?

They were like adam and eve. without sin.

They did not lose salvation. they never had it. they did not NEED saved before they fell

so again. how can you lose it after the church age? By what definition or by what means are they saved?
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The fallen angels once had eternal life, unless you believe they were created with an expiry date.

After the rapture of the church, salvation once again becomes a mix of faith and works, as it had been under the law of Moses.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
My will did not demand anything from God. My flesh was broken and in brokenness called out in desperation to God (like the tax collector)

My will did not do anything

God offered me the ability to repent. He did not repent for me..
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Where do we see "God offered me the ability to repent" while we were still sinners?

Have you ever asked yourself why your flesh was broken and it responded to God? Do you not realize that God could have justly left you in your despair as you went to hell?

"But God...by grace you have been saved." (Ephesians 2:1-10)

Peter lays it out for us:

1 Peter 1:2-4
God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. May God give you more and more grace and peace. All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
The fallen angels once had eternal life, unless you believe they were created with an expiry date.

After the rapture of the church, salvation once again becomes a mix of faith and works, as it had been under the law of Moses.
Click to expand...
NO! Salvation has never been, nor will ever be by works. It has always been by grace alone. How did you ever get that messed up theology, George? It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. You have had to have read commentaries to come up with that convoluted thought.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

Wow, talk about coming up with one's own tailor-made Bible "translation".

Let's compare that to the actual words of God:

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Which is the mirror verse of:

2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Accordingly, the ordo salutis is:
1) belief of the truth
2) sanctification of the Spirit
3) chosen to salvation (in context of 2Th.2:13 that's salvation from the tribulation, not hell).

No wonder you had to ditch the God-honoured Reformation text of the King James Bible.
I'd go back to Calvinism too if I had your translation.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
NO! Salvation has never been, nor will ever be by works. It has always been by grace alone. How did you ever get that messed up theology, George? It certainly doesn't come from the Bible. You have had to have read commentaries to come up with that convoluted thought.
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I believed as you did as long as I was getting my theology from commentaries rather than from the Bible.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
Two ways?

Funny how you could not prove my example (that you brought up) wrong. You just had to once again trty to tell me what I am thinking (and again your wrong)

The example remains. a slave does not have to come and say yes to the savior. she can remains a slave. Many did..

I can buy a slaves freedom. It does not mean they have to accept my offer..
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Let's talk about slavery in the sense of the biblical times, not civil war slavery. Not the same thing.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
I believed as you did as long as I was getting my theology from commentaries rather than from the Bible.
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No, you didn't believe as the Bible teaches.
Salvation has never been, nor will ever be by works. It has always been by grace alone.
From Adam onward, God saved by grace alone and justified by faith alone. The writers in the New Testament work hard to express this truth. Read Ephesians to see salvation by grace alone. Read Romans to see justification by faith alone. Read Hebrews to see God's Covenants establishing salvation by grace and justification by faith. Note the tie in in Hebrews 11 and Hebrews 12.
 
E

Eternally Grateful

Active Member
George Antonios said:
The fallen angels once had eternal life, unless you believe they were created with an expiry date.

After the rapture of the church, salvation once again becomes a mix of faith and works, as it had been under the law of Moses.
Click to expand...

again,

Like adam, they were once without sin. They were never promised eternal life. they just had life.

Salvation has NEVER been a mix of faith plus works. where does this idea come from?
 
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Eternally Grateful

Active Member
AustinC said:
Where do we see "God offered me the ability to repent" while we were still sinners?

Have you ever asked yourself why your flesh was broken and it responded to God? Do you not realize that God could have justly left you in your despair as you went to hell?

"But God...by grace you have been saved." (Ephesians 2:1-10)

Peter lays it out for us:

1 Peter 1:2-4
God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. May God give you more and more grace and peace. All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
Click to expand...
lets see. John 3. John 4. John 5. John 6.

I can go on and on and on.

Where do you see people can be made alive while stull under the penalty of sin?

How can justification - the means for the ability to be born again, come after the result?
 
E

Eternally Grateful

Active Member
Reformed1689 said:
I am listening to you and it is the same unbiblical argument. God chose me, but I asked him to apply salvation to me. Which would be you choosing him. You can't have it both ways.
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No.

Me choosing him would be me demanding he must saved me, Ir trying to be saved by works. or whatever means which is of the flesh

Me calling out to God in desperation because I have come to the end of myself is not me choosing him, It is me begging for his mercy.

I guess you figure God just gave it to you.. you did not have to become poor in spirit.. Well Jesus would disagree with you
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
The fallen angels once had eternal life, unless you believe they were created with an expiry date.

After the rapture of the church, salvation once again becomes a mix of faith and works, as it had been under the law of Moses.
Click to expand...
NONE were ever saved under the OC by a mixture of grace and good works!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
No.

Me choosing him would be me demanding he must saved me, Ir trying to be saved by works. or whatever means which is of the flesh

Me calling out to God in desperation because I have come to the end of myself is not me choosing him, It is me begging for his mercy.

I guess you figure God just gave it to you.. you did not have to become poor in spirit.. Well Jesus would disagree with you
Click to expand...
I think you need to read what Jesus actually said, not what your warped theology says.
 
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