Free Will and Loss of Salvation

[Eternally Grateful]

Your couterpoint is invalid as a logical fallacy. So there is nothing to address. We aren't talking about "just free will" we are talking about ABSOLUTE free will. I also hold to free will, but the free will that exists in reality, not absolute free will as if we have equal choices without influence.

once again, YOU DID NOT USE THE WORD ABSOLUTE.

and EVEN IF YOU DID NOT it does not matter

FREE WILL IS FREE WILL

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That depends on the dispensation. You cannot lose it in the church age. You can lose it after the church age.
How would that negate the notion of free will?

we can lose it after the church age? When does eternal life stop being eternal? When could it ever be lost?

 

[Reformed1689]

lets see



1. You did not use the word ABSOLUTE.
2. You spoke to me, a free will advocate (agent or however you want to put it)
3. You spoke to me about believing we can NOT lose our salvation
4. You asked, does that not NEGATE my notion of free will.

you sir are not even sure of your own question.. then lie about it because you do not like the fact I proved your hypotheses in error

See post Free Will and Loss of Salvation

 

[Reformed1689]

once again, YOU DID NOT USE THE WORD ABSOLUTE.

and EVEN IF YOU DID NOT it does not matter

FREE WILL IS FREE WILL

I clarified in post number 4 what we are talking about. No Free will is not free will equally. So yes, it does matter. There are different definitions of free will.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I clarified in post number 4 what we are talking about. No Free will is not free will equally. So yes, it does matter. There are different definitions of free will.

I disagree

free will is free will. the freedom to chose.

Every minute of every hour of ever day we make free will choices..

we are born in a state of unbelief, We have free will up to the point of death to remain in unbelief, or take what God has shown us through his creation, His word, his people and his direct influence in our lives to chose to repent of that unbelief. and in brokenness do the only thing we can do. Cry out for Gods mercy.

as for your post

Some on this board advocate for an absolute free will as if we are not in bondage to sin and because of that will not choose Christ without a change. How then can those same people hold to no loss of salvation? It totally negates that idea of free will. If you cannot choose to leave your salvation, by their explanation of free will, the will is not free.

1.this post makes no sense. Who believes we are not in bondage to sin and thus we will not chose Christ without a change? if we are not in bondage to sin, we would not need to change to come to Christ. thus we would not need to repent.
2. This is a false fallacy even here, we do not CHOSE Christ. Again, as I said the tax collector did not chose Christ. (but you do not want to talk about this)
3. how can these people hold to no loss of salvation? I have spent this whole thread explaining that to you.

 

[Reformed1689]

I disagree

free will is free will. the freedom to chose.

Every minute of every hour of ever day we make free will choices..

we are born in a state of unbelief, We have free will up to the point of death to remain in unbelief, or take what God has shown us through his creation, His word, his people and his direct influence in our lives to chose to repent of that unbelief. and in brokenness do the only thing we can do. Cry out for Gods mercy.

as for your post



1.this post makes no sense. Who believes we are not in bondage to sin and thus we will not chose Christ without a change? if we are not in bondage to sin, we would not need to change to come to Christ. thus we would not need to repent.
2. This is a false fallacy even here, we do not CHOSE Christ. Again, as I said the tax collector did not chose Christ. (but you do not want to talk about this)
3. how can these people hold to no loss of salvation? I have spent this whole thread explaining that to you.

Slaves don't change themselves.

 

[AustinC]

I disagree

free will is free will. the freedom to chose.

Every minute of every hour of ever day we make free will choices..

we are born in a state of unbelief, We have free will up to the point of death to remain in unbelief, or take what God has shown us through his creation, His word, his people and his direct influence in our lives to chose to repent of that unbelief. and in brokenness do the only thing we can do. Cry out for Gods mercy.

as for your post



1.this post makes no sense. Who believes we are not in bondage to sin and thus we will not chose Christ without a change? if we are not in bondage to sin, we would not need to change to come to Christ. thus we would not need to repent.
2. This is a false fallacy even here, we do not CHOSE Christ. Again, as I said the tax collector did not chose Christ. (but you do not want to talk about this)
3. how can these people hold to no loss of salvation? I have spent this whole thread explaining that to you.

Out of curiosity, are you eternally grateful that you chose God or eternally grateful that God chose you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Slaves don't change themselves.

Your right..

Slaves are freed

But many slaves chose to remain in bondage and chose not to believe or have faith in the one who came to free them

same situational example

A slave who is in bondage is freed. The one who freed them has not only saved them, but now takes care of them, and they never give the slave any reason to lose faith in his freedom

Why would that slave ever return to the bondage he was freed from because he lost faith in the savior?

so again, Your argument against free will and trying to resolve eternal security with free will to support your belief are mute

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Out of curiosity, are you eternally grateful that you chose God or eternally grateful that God chose you?

God brought me to my knees.

God showed me my sin

God showed me his love, He showed me himself and his creation through his word, his people and his creation.

I cried out to him, and asked him to apply his salvation to me. I did not chose him. He chose to save me..

But not in the way your thinking.. I could have said no.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning

This thread will be closed no sooner than 10 pm EDT / 7 pm PDT

 

[Reformed1689]

Your right..

Slaves are freed

But many slaves chose to remain in bondage and chose not to believe or have faith in the one who came to free them

same situational example

A slave who is in bondage is freed. The one who freed them has not only saved them, but now takes care of them, and they never give the slave any reason to lose faith in his freedom

Why would that slave ever return to the bondage he was freed from because he lost faith in the savior?

so again, Your argument against free will and trying to resolve eternal security with free will to support your belief are mute

You are trying to have it both ways. The will is in bondage to sin, enslaved. It doesn't have the choice to be free because it is not its choice to make.

 

[Reformed1689]

God brought me to my knees.

God showed me my sin

God showed me his love, He showed me himself and his creation through his word, his people and his creation.

I cried out to him, and asked him to apply his salvation to me. I did not chose him. He chose to save me..

But not in the way your thinking.. I could have said no.

Again, you can't have it both ways.

 

[AustinC]

God brought me to my knees.

God showed me my sin

God showed me his love, He showed me himself and his creation through his word, his people and his creation.

I cried out to him, and asked him to apply his salvation to me. I did not chose him. He chose to save me..

But not in the way your thinking.. I could have said no.

The only choice your in slavery to sin self could make was to say no and run away.
This is the point. Your will is not and was not free. God had to break in to your cell and free you. Once he did so, you could run back to your cell and live in slavery, but you wouldn't. Why? Because God gave you the faith to believe and repent.

Now please, quit lifting yourself up above your position.

 

[George Antonios]

we can lose it after the church age? When does eternal life stop being eternal? When could it ever be lost?

Ask the fallen angels.

 

[Reformed1689]

Ask the fallen angels.

In case you didn't know, angels and humans are two totally different things.

 

[George Antonios]

In case you didn't know, angels and humans are two totally different things.

Irrelevant to the nature of "eternal" in "eternal life" under discussion.
Unless your contention is that angels were created with an expiry date.
Please write out a reasoning with such comments.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are trying to have it both ways. The will is in bondage to sin, enslaved. It doesn't have the choice to be free because it is not its choice to make.

Two ways?

Funny how you could not prove my example (that you brought up) wrong. You just had to once again trty to tell me what I am thinking (and again your wrong)

The example remains. a slave does not have to come and say yes to the savior. she can remains a slave. Many did..

I can buy a slaves freedom. It does not mean they have to accept my offer..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again, you can't have it both ways.

Both ways?

Your not even listening to me..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The only choice your in slavery to sin self could make was to say no and run away.
This is the point. Your will is not and was not free. God had to break in to your cell and free you. Once he did so, you could run back to your cell and live in slavery, but you wouldn't. Why? Because God gave you the faith to believe and repent.

Now please, quit lifting yourself up above your position.

My will did not demand anything from God. My flesh was broken and in brokenness called out in desperation to God (like the tax collector)

My will did not do anything

God offered me the ability to repent. He did not repent for me..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ask the fallen angels.

ask them what?

They were like adam and eve. without sin.

They did not lose salvation. they never had it. they did not NEED saved before they fell

so again. how can you lose it after the church age? By what definition or by what means are they saved?