CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
Forgive my ignorance here, what is the meaning of "OP"?
Inquiring minds would like to know. I am not that knowledgeable regarding "Abbreviations"
Thank you....
The Lord bless you....
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Free Will and Loss of Salvation
- Thread starter Reformed1689
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Forgive my ignorance here, what is the meaning of "OP"?
Inquiring minds would like to know. I am not that knowledgeable regarding "Abbreviations"
Thank you....
The Lord bless you....
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Original Post
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Hello. You have a strange way of greeting people ... with a barrage of accusations?
How about this:
Hello,
I hope the Lord has been kind to you and your household. Shall we endeavour to speak like brothers and get to know one another?
Honorable? What an interesting question. No, I don't think that I would describe anything about myself as honorable at this point in my life. Frankly, I find myself asking some really hard questions and being less certain of the answers.
- Is God good?
- Can we trust him?
- Is faith worth the effort to hold on to?
I wish she had something like cancer that would take her life and be beyond my control. Then I could hope and mourn and move on. Instead the God that said he was "for us" has left me with impossible choices. Without the meds, her tremors make it impossible for her to stand, so she stays in bed, becomes depressed, stops eating and slowly starves moaning "I don't want to live like this any more". With the meds, the tremors are controlled, but she cannot remember from one hour to the next wheter you visited her or she ate dinner.
So which do I choose for the woman that means more than my life ... alive but nobody home (mentally) thinking she has been abandoned ... or awake and starving and wishing she were dead?
How do I spend my time? I need to work to have insurance and money to pay for treatment. I need to be with my wife to encourage and calm her. I need to be with our daughter to help her through all of this. Wherever I am ... I feel the guilt of neglecting the other two.
So, no. Honorable is not how I feel.
My vocabulary is my vocabulary. I use the words that I know to express the thoughts that I have.
Words have meaning and some of the words have important meanings.
How are people saved:
- MONERGISM / MONERGISTIC / MONERGISTICLY: God saves people all by Himself without requiring any action on the part of the person saved.
- SYNERGISM / SYNERGISTIC / SYNERGISTICLY: God saves people through a cooperative effort between God and the person saved.
I have no Theology or Bible degrees and read few books . I attended a Community College and an Engineering University studying Liberal Arts, Computer Science and Architecture (in that order).
I am doubtful that you can prove that a degree in Theology is "all Wood, hay, and stubble, to be burnt".
I believe that God reveals His word to anyone that seeks it.
CalTech
Active Member
Why you quoting me? I did not compare the Joshua passage to salvation?
What kind of "guy" am I? I am a Classical Arminian. The passage you quote in Joshua has nothing to do with New Covenant Salvation. If Israel choosing was a model, the fact Israel un-chose every time they chose, would lend support against eternal security.
CalTech
Active Member
First I desire to say I am so sorry that your wife and you are suffering so......I shall pray asking the Holy Spirit to guide my thoughts on what to pray for.
I keep it very simple, I would say, those who believe in self will choosing salvation is a works salvation, and those who believe in the the Lord granting them the gift of salvation by HIS choice. It is either Free Will, or God's Sovereign choosing.
You must have learned these "phrases" somehow, someway, somewhere, because they are not terminology that is written in the Lord's Word. I have heard of these "phrases" but never bothered to see what they mean......I just keep it simple, I never know when I will meet up with a babe in Christ, keeping it simple is the best without utilizing "phrases" as such. because these "phrases" are not part of the KJV language of God's Word.....I never utilize them. I am not saying it is sin to utilize them, I just have never had the need to know them. God's Word is enough.
I am grateful that you have explained them to me, and now I will have an understanding when persons use them, and the where and why they do so. You see I've seen that these "terminologies" have been established much during the mid-Medieval times, and this definition rather reveals much to me: "mid-14c., "the science of religion, study of God and his relationship to humanity," from Old French theologie "philosophical study of Christian doctrine; Scripture" (14c.), from Latin theologia, from Greek theologia "an account of the gods," from theologos "one discoursing on the gods," from theos "god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts) + -logos "treating of" (see -logy). Meaning "a particular system of theology" is from 1660s".
So I stay away from such man-made terminologies, because with the assistance of the Holy Spirit's influence in my life, I have found no need for them. I especially do not adhere to such words as "the science of religion", or the "philosophical study of Christian doctrine"
Since it would seem to have been developed in the 14th Century, and 1600's. I will be researching this to find the beginnings of this and by whom. My suspicions are that the RCC may have been the author of such terminology.
Basically I was asking how you came to this "knowledge" and by whom and what book. Because you speak as "if" you were educated in this manner. So I beg your pardon for "assuming" you did. Forgive me.
But, I've come to learn: "
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
You see one can have all the Theological education and still be lost. They are filled with a Head knowledge of the Lord, and yet do not know Him. They walk in the Letter of the Word in their fleshly fallen understanding, and not by and in the Spirit of the Word as granted by the Holy Spirit. That is why I dislike, nor do I utilize such language....
So many become proud because of their "learning and using such" terminologies and philosophic ideals, especially when they prove how good they are with Hebrew and the Greek usage, yet they still miss the mark. Educational Pride always lifts the one who boost's about it, and it does not draw one to the Lord, but to the writer or speaker of it. It shall all disappear upon the death bed.
Hope this explains, in part, my response to your posting.
The Lord bless you.....
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
ask ourselves this
when you have faith in someone, and they never fail you. And they never give you a reason to stop trusting them
Why would you lose faith in them?
then ask yourself this
1. Does God fail people?
2. Are you not guilty and deserving of death, and Does God not have the power to save completely, and keep his part of the promise of eternal life,?
the answer to both questions is no
the second point you came to a realization before you were saved. or else you would never have repented and called out to God. So you would not have any tenancy to repent of this feeling unless God failed you continuously and proved to be unworthy of your faith.
Or you did not really believe it to begin with, You just went through the motion.Like sadly many in history have done, and think they are saved because they said some prayer or claimed they believe in jesus. so they are ok..
so the question should not be can a person freely walk away and by it lose salvation. But WOULD a person stop trusting in the God of eternity for salvation.
And my answer would be no. Free will or not. A true believe will never walk away free will or not
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Right but I am not asking about whether or not eternal security is true, I believe it is, what I am trying to get at is the disconnect in the theology of those who hold to free will but also believe in eternal security.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Did God give Job a reason to stop trusting in Him?
(You are making the same argument as Satan in the opening chapters of Job.)
Out of context verses mean nothing.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
I just explain ed it.
If you hold that people can freely walk away, You have to explain why God is so untrustworthy they would ever walk away.
I do not know of anyone at any time who lost faith in someone who never failed them.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
How have so many people who said the sinners prayer and repented, turned around and later abandoned their acceptance of God?
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
because they never had faith to begin with
Saying a sinners prayer without truly repenting and having faith does not save you.
Sadly I think we have many who think they are saved because they said some prayer who are not. Because they just go through the motions.
The jews did that. They claimed to have faith. But either was so faithless that they determined they needed to add works, or were so faithless that they thought they could say a sinners prayer and were saved so could live however they wanted.
Neither of them truly repented or had true living faith in the gospel.
37818
Well-Known Member
God having absolute knowledge of who will be lost and man could have absolute freedom of choices without contradiction in God being infinite.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
According to his wife and friends, "yes".
Irrelevant fallacy. Stephen was stoned to death and Paul was stoned and lived ... so does God prevent His saints from being stoned to death or not? You cannot apply the outcome for one as a universal rule for all.
You avoided my point, which was your claim boiled down to "God would never give any Christian a reason to doubt His faithfulness." and that is exactly what Satan said to God about Job ... "He is faithful because you always protect him and give him no reason to be doubt" [Job 1:9-11]. History, scripture and life are full of hard things that cause people to question. Your claim that all of life is sunshine does not ring true. (Ask any parent that has buried a child.)
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Eternally Grateful
Active Member
I did not ask if people thought he did. I asked if he did..
What does being stoned to death and and stoned and not dying have anything to do with a person having faith (even as small as a mustard seed) and losing complete faith to the point of unbelief?
Yep. And when God took Jobs family. Did Job lose faith and walk away from God giving god the spiritual finger become a non believer, and or did his faith become greater?
You still have not answered my question.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
T
That actually doesn't address the topic. If you have eternal security, you don't have absolute free will.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I think you miss the point of the OP.
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