Featured Free will makes God appear impotent.

I am just asking a question, is the man allowed to listen to the gospel, or does that contribute to his salvation?

Seems to me you need a person to be a stone dead corpse, then you could really claim God did it all. The man couldn't hear, he couldn't think, he couldn't believe.

And don't say that unsaved man is like a corpse, the rich man who died in Luke 16 absolutely refutes this. He was spiritually dead, but he could hear, speak, think, feel torment, repent, and desire that his brothers be saved. He was not a stone dead corpse like Calvinism falsely describes.

But that seems to be what you need for your doctrine to be true.

 

I must admit I have never heard a non-Cal refer to the rich man in Hell referenced as spiritually dead by Calvinists or Arminians. Leave it to you winman!

 

Our Hope arises from the freeness of Grace, not the freedom of man's will!!!!... I agree with that preacher and find no fault in that statement!
Amen to the truth!:thumbsup:

 

Any person in hell is spiritually dead or they wouldn't be there.

This didn't prevent him from speaking to Abraham, and hearing him. He could think, he could feel his torment, he desired that Lazarus go and preach to his brothers, showing he was now repentant, even though it was too late for him.

You Calvinists are off the rails. I am surprised you allow a man to hear the gospel, isn't his listening and thinking about the gospel him participating and contributing to his salvation?

Seems to me you guys should go out to the graveyard and preach so no one could claim they saved themselves.

You laugh, but it is YOU that is extreme. This is how you appear to others.

 

I don't know for a certainty. All I know is that scripture implies God judges a man according to what he knows.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Jesus said the man who knows this lord's will but did not obey shall be beaten with many stripes. The man who did not know his lord's will, but did things worthy of stripes shall be beaten with few stripes.

This seems to imply those who do not hear the gospel shall receive leniency of some sort.

Saying, "he that hath ears to hear, let him hear" means his message was to everyone. If you have ears, then listen.

Jesus was not saying the only person who could listen and hear him where those he regenerated, you are inserting that into scripture when it is not there.

The reason the rich man did not ask Abraham to get him out of hell is because he already knew the answer, NO. This man had heard God's word his whole life and that is the point. He didn't listen. He COULD have listened, but all he was interested in was wealth and pleasure. Now it was too late for him.

How does any of this answer the question I put to you? Are you offended that a man uses his ears to hear the gospel, and uses his mind to think and understand the gospel? How is that not man contributing to his own salvation that you seem so worried about?

Seems to me you Calvinists should go out to the graveyard and preach there. Then no one could boast they contributed or participated in their salvation. You folks love to compare salvation to Lazarus being raised from the dead, so why do you preach to living people?

Yes, go out and preach in the graveyard, then no one can claim they participated with God in their salvation.

You don't even see how extreme you have become since you have adopted this new view.

 

If I may, brother. From or before the foundation of the world, God, having foreseen the fall of
Adam, and the corruption of the whole human race, made complete and deemed complete passively IN CHRIST all those whom He elected unto eternal glory THROUGH CHRIST. In His eyes these are and have always been and will always be new creations (as in 2 Corinthians 5:17) as they pass through time onto their eternal home.

 

Therein lies the root of Calvinism's error. Freewill choice does not usurp God's sovereignty. This is proven in Adam before the fall. Until one can accept this truth, one will remain in the clutches of Calvinism.

 

You've proven nothing. All you've done is used yourself as subjective authority on eternal truth.

Frankly you're in error.

The Word, not you, declares it is not via 'choice' -- John 1:13; Romans 9:16; and that believers only believe via God's power that raised Christ; Eph. 1:19, in which such faith is actually God's gift; Romans 12:3.

 

Christ preached man is not free until He sets them free -- Note John 8. This includes every aspect of mans person which includes his will, yet you are preaching man IS free in his will.

So, I must ask, are you schooling Christ?

 

Thanks brother....as always:thumbs::applause:

 

I thought you had him on ignore.

 

Wow. I see the arrogance and nastiness of Calvinism has rubbed off on you.

 

When I first encountered convicted1's interactions here I thought he was quite nice and sincere. I have seen an evolution of sorts of transformation over the past few weeks.

Notice not one post dealing with the FACT that God gave Adam freewill and it did NOT usurp any of God's sovereignty at all, not one ounce. Why do we think that is? If they were to correct this error found within their preaching, that is that it is all about sovereignty, then what would happen to the rest of the TULIP???? They know........but yet refuse.

 

We can debate freewill post fall. But we must first acknowledge the truth that sovereignty has nothing to do with freewill, Adam had it, you Calvinist even say he did. So will you acknowledge sovereignty has nothing to do with freewill?

 

All great stuff brother, but let's take this one step at a time. Dis Adam have a freewill? Did this usurp God's sovereignty?