Free Will Origin of Sin

[Dave G]

Lastly, good sir:

I'm sorry, but from my perspective, you are rejecting His words.
God's word says that those who reject His words ( not mine, His ) are not His ( John 8:47, John 10:27 )

Are you His?
Then accept His words:

" He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." ( John 1:11-13 )

Mankind's will does not determine his destiny...
There is no way to get into God's grace by performing an action or set of actions.
It's a lie.
It's not Scriptural.
It's an illusion, and a very skillfully contrived one.
God determines a person's destiny, by His grace and mercy, and we ( all of us ) are responsible for disobeying Him... making whatever He chooses, right and just.
That is precisely what makes it of grace, and not of works.

Does that seem harsh to you?
Holiness ( lack of sin ) is harsh to those who are used to sinning ( Jeremiah 13:23 ).
Mankind thinks that Hell ( everlasting punishment ) is too harsh for something that gives them such pleasure...the pain just doesn't seem fitting, somehow.

But God says that it is.
Argue with Him if you want to.
I'm not, and I wouldn't ( Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5, Hebrews 10:31 ).
I love Him for bothering with my worthless hide ( 1 John 4:19 ), and for telling me what He saved me from...me and my own stubborn will, and Him and his eternal wrath.




This is my final reply to you on this subject, sir.
I've presented all that I am able to, over these past many weeks, to help explain to you what I see when I read God's word.




May God bless you richly.

 

[loDebar]

We have Free Will within God's permissive will. Even though some would act outside of His will we do not have that authority.
Our Free will , both good and bad choices, exists. God knows our choices but allows us to learn as in reap what we sow. God wants the best for us to operate in His will but wont intrude in Free Will.

 

[Rockson]

S
According to Scripture, the choice has already been made, eternally...death ( Romans 1:32 ).
Israel's choice was already made by them...death.

Israel's choice had already been made by them when? What are you talking about! Sorry Dave you in your posts it seems you roll out a whole bunch of words which lack connection in any meaningful way about what we're even talking about.

He made the covenant, and He did His part to hold up His end of it, perfectly.
What did they do throughout their history?
They chose their sin over obeying Him.
The "proof is in the pudding"...

Look if we're talking about a human beings capabilities that God gave you can't just say God gave the nation of Israel CHOICE or the ability to choose and because the nation by and large chose wrongly that therefore means that demonstrates what human capabilities are. What about all the people of Israel that chose rightly. How can you cut them out of the equation like you have?

I suppose because they don't fit your theological mode so you don't even refer to them as if they existed. What about Peter, James and John and many of all the disciples. What about Jeremiah and all the hosts of many prophets and righteous people along the way? No one from Israel chose rightly?

I respectfully suggest you continue in your readings.

 

[Dave G]

We have Free Will within God's permissive will.

OK, I see something like that in His word.
To me, man's will extends exactly as far as God's will allows him ( Proverbs 16:9 ).
Where do you see that in His word?

Call it an exercise...
"What do we believe, and why do we believe it?"

Even though some would act outside of His will we do not have that authority.

I definitely agree.
Again, where do you see that in Scripture?

Our Free will , both good and bad choices, exists.

OK, I can see some of that as well ( Matthew 7:11, Luke 11:13 ).

God knows our choices but allows us to learn as in reap what we sow.

As believers, or unbelievers?
Who is this privilege of learning from our mistakes towards God ( repentance ) extended to, if mankind, as a whole, doesn't learn from their mistakes towards God ( Proverbs 1:7, Proverbs 12:1, Proverbs 15:32 )?

Who is the subject here ( Galatians 6:1-10 )?
Believers or unbelievers?

I also agree that those who sow wickedness shall reap the same ( Job 4:8 )
Who sows wickedness?

God wants the best for us to operate in His will but wont intrude in Free Will.

Where do you see, In His word, that God wants the best for all of mankind?
Where do you see, in Scripture, that God will not intrude on man's free will?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

How is that different? Did Eve and Adam have free choice in order to sin but not afterward? Do you have a wish to sin but yet still do? as Paul.

Dead to sin is for the saved, Eph 2:1

Eph 2:1 KJV - And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Christians were separated from God (spiritually dead) because of their trespasses and sins. Christians have been quickened (made spiritually alive) by the grace of God. Christians are not sinless (dead to sin) but do not suffer the consequences of their sins.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Satan and Adam were created to have free will and made a real choice to sin, so they were the cause of sin!

Gen 3:13 KJV - And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Her decision was influenced by the serpent.

Christians decisions should be influenced by the Holy Spirit and all of God's revelation to us Christians.

I believe "free will" philosophy is a hoax perpetrated by Satan.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

God gives us free will in order to love him without coercion. In this free will we can also disobey or not. We are condemned already and God provides us the opportunity to understand repentance and salvation. The Holy Spirit brings us to the point od decision making and in free will we make a choice. We have consequences of our decisions, Salvation is only from God, offered to all and those who choice to accept the pardon through Christ are saved.

If there is no free will, God created sin and chose to send some to hell while saving others, Both statements must be false according to scripture.

Rom 9:14 KJV - What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 KJV - For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 KJV - So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[Dave G]

Gen 3:13 KJV - And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Her decision was influenced by the serpent.

Christians decisions should be influenced by the Holy Spirit and all of God's revelation to us Christians.

I believe "free will" philosophy is a hoax perpetrated by Satan.

Brief and to-the-point.
Not long-winded and detailed like my posts...


Eventually, I'll learn to emulate my elders.

Rom 9:14 KJV - What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 KJV - For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 KJV - So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Yes, He will.


May God bless you in abundance, Wesley.

 

[Alan Gross]

After this topic of the existence Free Will has been discussed at length and continues with errors, I was undecided how to respond. I considered the using the scripture, definitions of words and modern examples. But I do not think this would be adequate due to the nature the arguments being presented, So I decided to present one question.

Did Satan have Free Will when he sinned?

Yes?, then Free Will Exists
No?, Then God is the origin of Sin

What say Ye?

Satan was changeable. Satan chose to change.

Adam was changeable. Adam chose to change.

The word is, 'mutable'.

A mutable Created Angel chose to change.

A mutable Created human chose to change.

Both of these instances of 'mutability'
are pointing to the Contrast and Illustrative of God's Attribute of 'Immutability'.

The sin of Adam plunged the capacity of his soul
into a state of being, 'dead, in trespasses and sins".

God Had Predicted this Fall of Adam when He told Adam,
"In the Day you eat, thereof, you will surely die."

Adam's 'death' the day he sinned against God's Command was 'Spiritual'.

As a human being with that lost Nature, Adam Gave Birth, through Eve,
to an entire Race of sinners, having a Spiritually Dead lost Nature.

Genesis 5:3: "And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years,
and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image;
and called his name Seth:"

Seth was born 'after the likeness' of Adam, i.e., a sinner.

Romans 5:12; "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world,
and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,
for that all have sinned:"

There can be equivocation to Satan's and Adam's Created 'mutable' state,
to Satan's state after he sinned, which is Forever Doomed,
HAVING ZERO CAPABILITY, or HOPE of 'Redemption ( Being 'Re-Judged')
or to Adam's state after he sinned, which was Doomed,
HAVING ZERO CAPABILITY, or HOPE of 'Redemption ( Being 'Re-Judged')
Apart from the Intervention into his Doomed soul
of the Supernatural Reality of The Spiritual New Birth.

As God's Elect Chosen child, from Eternity Past,
Adam was Shown the Message of Blood Sacrifice,
in the Making of their clothes, from the sacrifice of animals.

Adam was Given a Re-Generated, Born Again soul
and was 'Redeemed' by The Blood of Jesus ( 'Re-Judged',
by God Looking at What Jesus Was to Do for him).

EITHER: ADAM was DEAD in Trespasses and Sins, or NOT.

If Adam was Dead, Spiritually, in Trespasses and Sins,
AS GOD PREDICTED HE WOULD BE,
then that Death and sin nature
with NO CAPABILITY to CHOOSE ANYTHING EXCEPT TO SIN,
was Passed on to every human being born of a mother.

Salvation is of The Lord.

Jesus is The Savior.

NNE HAS ANY CAPABILITY to 'CHOOSE' ANYTHING BUT to SIN,
as NATURAL BORN, GOD-HATING, SINNERS.

To blindly propose otherwise is simply PROOF of the sin nature at work,
under, by the way, the influence of the Fallen Angel, Satan.

Romans 8:7; "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

1 Corinthians 2:14; "But the natural man receiveth not
the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[TCassidy]

Alan, I don't want to sound discouraging, but I think you are wasting your time.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Brief and to-the-point.
Not long-winded and detailed like my posts...


Eventually, I'll learn to emulate my elders.




Yes, He will.


May God bless you in abundance, Wesley.

Thank you for these kind and encouraging words.

 

[loDebar]

Eph 2:1 KJV - And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Christians were separated from God (spiritually dead) because of their trespasses and sins. Christians have been quickened (made spiritually alive) by the grace of God. Christians are not sinless (dead to sin) but do not suffer the consequences of their sins.

sinners are separated from God, already condemned. Believers should be unresponsive to sinful stimuli

 

[loDebar]

Satan was changeable. Satan chose to change.

Adam was changeable. Adam chose to change.

The word is, 'mutable'.

A mutable Created Angel chose to change.

A mutable Created human chose to change.

Both of these instances of 'mutability'
are pointing to the Contrast and Illustrative of God's Attribute of 'Immutability'.

The sin of Adam plunged the capacity of his soul
into a state of being, 'dead, in trespasses and sins".

God Had Predicted this Fall of Adam when He told Adam,
"In the Day you eat, thereof, you will surely die."

Adam's 'death' the day he sinned against God's Command was 'Spiritual'.

As a human being with that lost Nature, Adam Gave Birth, through Eve,
to an entire Race of sinners, having a Spiritually Dead lost Nature.

Genesis 5:3: "And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years,
and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image;
and called his name Seth:"

Seth was born 'after the likeness' of Adam, i.e., a sinner.

Romans 5:12; "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world,
and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,
for that all have sinned:"

There can be equivocation to Satan's and Adam's Created 'mutable' state,
to Satan's state after he sinned, which is Forever Doomed,
HAVING ZERO CAPABILITY, or HOPE of 'Redemption ( Being 'Re-Judged')
or to Adam's state after he sinned, which was Doomed,
HAVING ZERO CAPABILITY, or HOPE of 'Redemption ( Being 'Re-Judged')
Apart from the Intervention into his Doomed soul
of the Supernatural Reality of The Spiritual New Birth.

As God's Elect Chosen child, from Eternity Past,
Adam was Shown the Message of Blood Sacrifice,
in the Making of their clothes, from the sacrifice of animals.

Adam was Given a Re-Generated, Born Again soul
and was 'Redeemed' by The Blood of Jesus ( 'Re-Judged',
by God Looking at What Jesus Was to Do for him).

EITHER: ADAM was DEAD in Trespasses and Sins, or NOT.

If Adam was Dead, Spiritually, in Trespasses and Sins,
AS GOD PREDICTED HE WOULD BE,
then that Death and sin nature
with NO CAPABILITY to CHOOSE ANYTHING EXCEPT TO SIN,
was Passed on to every human being born of a mother.

Salvation is of The Lord.

Jesus is The Savior.

NNE HAS ANY CAPABILITY to 'CHOOSE' ANYTHING BUT to SIN,
as NATURAL BORN, GOD-HATING, SINNERS.

To blindly propose otherwise is simply PROOF of the sin nature at work,
under, by the way, the influence of the Fallen Angel, Satan.

Romans 8:7; "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

1 Corinthians 2:14; "But the natural man receiveth not
the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The natural man is not the same as a sinner who is spiritual and can choose to be saved.

If a sinner cannot choose to repent, what is the point of Christ?

You were a sinner that choose to repent to accept salvation. you could have chosen not too as the rich young ruler.
If God makes he decision, for you it is not fee will, If God interferes in free will, then why did He make some choose sin?
If He makes some to choose sin.then he is the cause of sin
Truly you must see the result of the decisions in this error of thinking

 

[loDebar]

Alan, I don't want to sound discouraging, but I think you are wasting your time.

I believe that is a back handed compliment,

 

[TCassidy]

You think it was a compliment? I must have said it wrong!

 

[loDebar]

You think it was a compliment? I must have said it wrong!

you said it right , I know what you meant,

 

[Alan Gross]

Alan, I don't want to sound discouraging, but I think you are wasting your time.

TCassidy, Oh, O.K., thank you, very much. With your indication that this path has already been well-trodden, to no avail; I heartily receive your admonition and allow the Lord to Minister to me,

from Titus 3:9-11; "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10 "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;

11 "Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

Praise Jesus,
Thanks again,
Alan

 

[loDebar]

TCassidy, Oh, O.K., thank you, very much. With your indication that this path has already been well-trodden, to no avail; I heartily receive your admonition and allow the Lord to Minister to me,

from Titus 3:9-11; "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10 "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;

11 "Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

Praise Jesus,
Thanks again,
Alan

Alan, or you simply make a mistake not fully realizing the consequences of your position, If there is no choice, then God is the author of sin. Which is the end result of this argument that you are using, or being used by Satan to impugn God.
Realize the folly.

Job 4:18
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:

How can there be folly without free will?

Job 24:12
Men groan from out of the city, and the soul of the wounded crieth out: yet God layeth not folly to them.

God says He does not cause men to folly.

There are different words for "folly" one ids just error, the other is "foolishness"

 

[Alan Gross]

Alan, or you simply make a mistake not fully realizing the consequences of your position, If there is no choice, then God is the author of sin. Which is the end result of this argument that you are using, or being used by Satan to impugn God.
Realize the folly.

Job 4:18
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:

How can there be folly without free will?

Job 24:12
Men groan from out of the city, and the soul of the wounded crieth out: yet God layeth not folly to them.

God says He does not cause men to folly.

There are different words for "folly" one ids just error, the other is "foolishness"

reject

 

[loDebar]

reject

you reject scripture

this is strange for a Baptist