Free Will

[Particular]

"Begging the question" means you must assume something is true to try to prove a point you are making. It doesn't mean because of this question, there must be a follow up question.

Example: People don't have free will because if they did, all would be saved.

Well, free-will fits begging the question perfectly then.

 

[InTheLight]

Then you just ignore the obvious contradiction and deny it. Unfortunately for you, the Bible doesn't teach what you teach.

Yes, I deny faulty binary choices set forth in lousy arguments. Sue me.

 

[Particular]

Yes, I deny faulty binary choices set forth in lousy arguments. Sue me.

Okay.
The truth is the argument for free will is not supported by the text of scripture. It is entirely created by supposition and faulty logic and then that faulty logic is denied by those who hold the view.

 

[InTheLight]

Okay.
The truth is the argument for free will is not supported by the text of scripture. It is entirely created by supposition and faulty logic and then that faulty logic is denied by those who hold the view.

Oh, so kinda like regeneration before belief, then.

 

[Particular]

Oh, so kinda like regeneration before belief, then.

You mean this?

Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

 

[InTheLight]

You mean this?

Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Yep. Your faulty logic and supposition sees regeneration before belief in that verse.

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[Particular]

Yep. Your faulty logic and supposition sees regeneration before belief in that verse.

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What I wonder is how you cannot accept exactly what God says in these verses. What other option is there?

 

[Iconoclast]

Revmitchell,

Sorry for the delay, but let's get to it.
I asked you for one verse in the bible that teaches or mentions the carnal philosophical idea of man having a free will.

Free will is a term used describe the process

No...that is your made up definition.That definition has no basis to any scripture anywhere.

by which God has determined that man should choose to accept his offer of free grace or reject it

You are now going to offer some verses you think teach this idea.
Not one of these verses use the term free will....so now we look for your other terms....."choose to accept"...no, that is not there either. You seem to insert whatever you feel like, whenever you feel like it.

(John 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Here RM is getting excited because it speaks about;
as many as received Him
them that believe on His name.

Notice no mention of free will, no none at all.
Perhaps if we continue, the passage will explain itself. RM suggested I do not know any scripture, so let's see if we just read another verse, if it reveals the source of these unsaved men being saved. Maybe it will explain this phantom free will RM claims exists???


13 which were born, not of bloods;

nor of the will of the flesh,

nor of the will of man,

but of God.

Sorry RM.....Jesus says twice....it was not the will of the flesh, It is not the will of man!
So why did you suggest the false idea that this has anything to do with free will???

For you to suggest I do not know scripture and then offer such a falsehood is a bit strange RM.

Next;

Luke 14:26-33;
26 If any man come to me,
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me,

Luke 9:23;
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Here it speaks of men who come to Jesus......and yet Jesus had taught No man can come to me, unless The Father who sent me draw him.Jn6:37-44

So again, nothing suggesting mans will is free...no in fact they CANNOT COME
unless drawn by the Father.....no free will there also.
RM... Iasked for one verse that mentions free will...we Know there is not one. Next, I ask for any that teach man is still "free"...Let us know if you find one

 

[Iconoclast]

"Revmitchell,
You say this:

Then maybe you shouldn't be posting on Baptist Board. Excuses excuses

I need no excuse to post to you. You have no substance whatsoever.
If you want to speak on the phone while I am driving I will give you more scripture than you can process.


I asked you earlier in the day if you wanted to talk on the phone....
You suggested I did not know scripture

If you want to speak on the phone while I am driving I will give you more scripture than you can process.

Arrogance in its finest form

Instead of taking up my offer, you now go to your go to phrase, calling Calvinists arrogant... Fact is it was not arrogant at all, but you cannot deal with direct contact and discussion. While I was driving through Texas and Louisiana, I could not cut and paste as you suggested, so you could have found out first hand if your allegation that I do not know scripture is true, or just more bloviation and deflection on your part....I think the answer is clear to see.

Bub I was here long before you.

So what??? This means nothing. In the years I have been here your posts are useless. Being here a long time does not give you any special status.

I have been in far more debates on this board than you

.
I have not seen one of any substance. Could you post links to your three bests debates???

You dpn't know what all I have done on this board.

Yes I do. You call Calvinists names, you call us arrogant and rude, and yet that seems to describe your conduct, week after week

I suggest you check your arrogance. Anyway you are projecting.

You are doing that very thing. I cannot say I am surprised. You cannot address the scriptures so you try and make it personal, but have failed both with misused scripture, and your unkind remarks.

 

[Rob_BW]

You're right Rob, it was late and I was heading to bed, when he posted it and he was online, then after I posted it he was gone... Never got my answer... My stand?... I just woke up, I'll get back to you brethren but I don't agree with Mitchell!... Brother Glen

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

A dead man doesn't have free will!

I'm on Arabian Standard Time, so I have an 8+ hour head start on you brothers and sisters back in the States.

 

[Reformed]

I'm on Arabian Standard Time, so I have an 8+ hour head start on you brothers and sisters back in the States.

Except for me because I hardly ever sleep.

 

[Revmitchell]

Mat 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Jo 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

You interjected yourself in a conversation you did not understan.

 

[tyndale1946]

I'm on Arabian Standard Time, so I have an 8+ hour head start on you brothers and sisters back in the States.

Thanks for letting us know Rob!... You're not posting from a Camel are you?... Brother Glen

 

[MartyF]

Not one of these verses use the term free will....so now we look for your other terms....."choose to accept"...no, that is not there either.

Genesis 4:7

 

[robycop3]

2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

If God had wanted robots, He coulda made us, Satan, & the angels robots, incapable of the slightest disobedience. But clearly, He wants people who will love Him for what He is of their own free will & desire, not from automaticity.

 

[Iconoclast]

Genesis 4:7

Be accepted....has nothing to do with it.
God makes us accepted,see Eph1:6.

 

[Iconoclast]

2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

If God had wanted robots, He coulda made us, Satan, & the angels robots, incapable of the slightest disobedience. But clearly, He wants people who will love Him for what He is of their own free will & desire, not from automaticity.

That verse is speaking of the elect who will be saved throughout time.The longsuffering of God leads to salvation of everyone of them.

 

[InTheLight]

That verse is speaking of the elect who will be saved throughout time.The longsuffering of God leads to salvation of everyone of them.

#3


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[Iconoclast]

According to John 1:12 man does have the ability to believe as does Romans 1 & 10

Not when you read verse 13.

 

[Iconoclast]

#3


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You have no biblical response at all.