It is almost too much to bear.
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Fundamentalists least educated
- Thread starter Luke2427
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It is almost too much to bear.
North Carolina Tentmaker
New Member
One of my favorite Albert Einstein quotes is:
To judge someone's success or failure as a person by their level of education is to introduce a standard many would reject.
The problem with this thread is we are looking at statistics from different perspectives and with a different standard of success or failure. Luke wants to say:
But that is not my standard.
If my children all go on to earn masters and doctors degrees (as my only sibling and I both have) I would still consider my parenting a failure if they grow up to deny God.
When you look at any statistic you need to ask why and dig a little deeper. If the divorce rate among Christians looks higher than you would expect, then ask the question of are they more likely to marry. Would a Christian couple be more likely to marry than a non-Christian couple that might live together?
If Christians are less educated than atheists, then ask yourself why. Atheists are all about this world, is it unexpected that they invest more in it? Our systems of education are filled with the most liberal thinking because they never have to produce any results. Is it any wonder that people exposed the most to that kind of thinking develop a more liberal mindset of their own?
There is nothing surprising in this data, and nothing that indicates failure to me on the part of any Church or denomination. There are simply different priorities. To most believers advanced education is not a priority. That does not surprise me.
To judge someone's success or failure as a person by their level of education is to introduce a standard many would reject.
The problem with this thread is we are looking at statistics from different perspectives and with a different standard of success or failure. Luke wants to say:
And he is right, if your standard of "doing a better job" is the number of degrees and level of education your children earn.
But that is not my standard.
If my children all go on to earn masters and doctors degrees (as my only sibling and I both have) I would still consider my parenting a failure if they grow up to deny God.
When you look at any statistic you need to ask why and dig a little deeper. If the divorce rate among Christians looks higher than you would expect, then ask the question of are they more likely to marry. Would a Christian couple be more likely to marry than a non-Christian couple that might live together?
If Christians are less educated than atheists, then ask yourself why. Atheists are all about this world, is it unexpected that they invest more in it? Our systems of education are filled with the most liberal thinking because they never have to produce any results. Is it any wonder that people exposed the most to that kind of thinking develop a more liberal mindset of their own?
There is nothing surprising in this data, and nothing that indicates failure to me on the part of any Church or denomination. There are simply different priorities. To most believers advanced education is not a priority. That does not surprise me.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Has it, by chance, occurred to you that economics plays an important roll in the education one gets {making a foolish assumption that the poll is correct}. Then of course there is the passage of Scripture which tells us:
1 Corinthians 1:26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
We dun be good when it come to basketball n football, who nuff!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
And then there is that Scripture which tells us: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. [Psalms 14:1]
So enough about how intelligent atheists are. They may be eddicated but they are as dumb as a door knob!
You speak an unrecornizable and strange language that I am not familiar with. I can make out sports stuff cause I still speak NE Pensy (goin upta da woods) by da Eynon ..... and I'm even emecucated in Joiseyan & New Yourker dialects (which come in handy ordering a pizzar) but dis is totally undesertable. So get da marbles outa yo mouth and talk American.......befor I hit ya in da head wit a tire iron.....capishe! :tongue3:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Hush yo mouf boy or I whak u up side haid wiffin my kain!
"mashugana goyim" ..:smilewinkgrin:
Note that Yiddish & Eyetalian are comparatively nice (ah.... subtle) compared to street Irish....IE., absolutely no tact or class....learnt my best cuss words hangin round dem. Don know how dey kissed der motters wit dose mouts.
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Yea, and for every example of an educated man who is doing harm I can give thousand examples of some ignorant Pentecostal who does not need an education because GOD SPEAKS TO HIM who is leading a hundred folks to hell.
Knowledge may puff up but ignorance leads to hell.
God said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."
LOL - better be careful, you'll get slapped with an accusation of bad hermeneutics.
You're right. It actually is bad hermeneutics. To say that this verse makes it ok for Fundamentalists to lead the nation in the failure to achieve high school diplomas is absolutely HORRIBLE hermeneutics.
Any time you pull a verse out of context like that and manipulate it to say what you want it to say is VERY bad hermeneutics. That's exactly right.
Ok. You raise some fine points. This is one of the few responses in this thread that is driven by clear-headed, reasonable thinking.
But, I think the thing you are not considering is that we are not just talking about advanced degree (though I think that matters, but I digress). We are also talking about HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS.
Do you think it is acceptable that those who claim to believe the Word of God most vociferously are several times more likely to NOT EVEN FINISH HIGH SCHOOL than atheists?
Because.. the thing is that atheists argue that the reason we believe the Bible is that we are stupid.
Stupid people, they reason, believe stupid things.
They think, if these people had half a brain they'd know better in this modern age.
And we perpetuate that claim by letting our children be some of the most uneducated children in America.
Have you ever watched one of those shows where the reporter goes out on the streets and asks people questions to show how horribly ignorant some people are of important current events?
They might ask something like, "Are you glad that Albert Einstein just won his race for the Kentucky District 1 House of Representatives seat?"
Or they might ask someone to name the last three vice presidents.
Something like that.
The answers you get are very amusing... and sad.
Those people have humiliated their families on national tv. They make themselves and the others they represent look stupid.
That's how many evangelicals and fundamentalists make Christ look.
Do you not think we ought to do better?
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I'll settle for 500.
Start listin'.
This from the guy who has learned to deny Genesis 1.
Talk of your bad hermeneutics. :laugh:
The idea that :everyone needs a high school diploma , came from the worldwide Socialist movement.
Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic are achieved by 5th grade.
We would still have a manufacturing workforce, had we not stuffed American boys into a room full of girls during their apprenticeship years.
University began at 13 yrs old, for those who would pursue higher ed., remember? Ministers would begin to fill pulpits or hold meetings at 14.
Show me where the last 100 years took the U.S. society. Crime Rate? Bastards? Sodomy? Illiteracy ? Gambling? Debt?
"Education" isnt important, Work is.
Those who are designed for it, will seek it.
How many "educated" people abhor labor?
How many couldnt tune up their car?
How many have to call a plumber, if their toilet stops up?
Wisdom doesnt come from education.
Knowledge begins with the fear of God, which our public institutions have Systemically rejected.
How much of our divorce rate is caused by unhapiness created by fornication that occurs in H.S., and College? How much Atheism?
These be thy gods, O Israel...dance around the Golden Diploma...
Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic are achieved by 5th grade.
We would still have a manufacturing workforce, had we not stuffed American boys into a room full of girls during their apprenticeship years.
University began at 13 yrs old, for those who would pursue higher ed., remember? Ministers would begin to fill pulpits or hold meetings at 14.
Show me where the last 100 years took the U.S. society. Crime Rate? Bastards? Sodomy? Illiteracy ? Gambling? Debt?
"Education" isnt important, Work is.
Those who are designed for it, will seek it.
How many "educated" people abhor labor?
How many couldnt tune up their car?
How many have to call a plumber, if their toilet stops up?
Wisdom doesnt come from education.
Knowledge begins with the fear of God, which our public institutions have Systemically rejected.
How much of our divorce rate is caused by unhapiness created by fornication that occurs in H.S., and College? How much Atheism?
These be thy gods, O Israel...dance around the Golden Diploma...
I believe the onus is upon you to demonstrate, with exact quotes, that I said any such thing.
What that passage does demonstrate is that God cares a lot less about a piece of paper than you do.
According to the world's standard, that paper means everything. And by you placing over-emphasis on it, you have gone to bed with the world.
Hmmm.
Nothing at all like this:
You know good and well that Hosea 4:6 isn't railing against ignorant, tongue-talking Pentecostals. Maybe you don't know, but you should - given that you're the most educated man on your campus.
Hosea 4:1
Listen to the word of the LORD, O sons of Israel, For the LORD has a case against the inhabitants of the land, Because there is no faithfulness or kindness Or knowledge of God in the land.
It's abundantly clear that God isn't speaking about high school diplomas 5 verses later, which means that you (whether intentionally or ignorantly) took that passage out of context in an attempt to prove your point.
Pot calls kettle black - good job.
Many intelligent people realize that a piece of paper means nothing if there isn't some substance behind it.
How many college grads don't know the difference between there, their and they're? you're and your? To many, I tell you. Did you catch that grammatical error? Not enough college grads do.
But they have a piece of paper. And people who judge by outward appearance will extoll the achievements of someone who might be ignorant as a rock. As I like to say, too much college and not enough Kindergarten.
I'm not arguing against high school diplomas or higher learning. But a lack of either one doesn't mean someone has failed as a human, a parent, a Christian, or anything else.
There are greater failures than educational.
I agree 100% with you, that the divorce rate is far too high for those who call themselves Christian. It dishonors the name of Christ, and people ought to be ashamed of themselves for treating marriage so loosely.
And I include myself in this. I have been divorced twice. Not that I initiated either one, for I didn't want either divorce. But when the marriage is a sham in the first place, what are we to expect?
I was an unbeliever in my first marriage, and we equally ruined it. My second one was after I became a believer. I won't go into details, but Hosea tells the story pretty well.
The point is that I made two horrendous decisions for marriage, and now I have two sons who have divorced parents. Good job for me, right?
And those two failures are far greater than any failure to achieve status in the academic world
Brother, that is good stuff
James..... Too much personal information that is unnecessary to divulge. As a brother, I would advise you to be discreet (for your own self)....the world / Christian & otherwise are full of louts that can & will use stuff like this against you. Just a word to the wise, right!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
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Lukie! In fairness you should show how and where I manipulated that passage of Scripture! I simply quoted the Apostle Paul, an amanuensis for God!
don't understand the context of the term "fundamentalist" that Luke is using it in. Is it the IFB church he is referencing? Is it the NEOCON type hard nose political type, is it the fellow who down deep feels he follows the correct A,B,C directions of a Christian so he is a fundamentalist, or is it a combination of all the above?
I consider myself a RADICAL CHRISTIAN, one that goes to the Radix (the root), to the Source, to the fundamentals....IE What Jesus really taught. Therefore, in many ways, I am a Religious Dropout.....free to get off the bus of Religion & start the process of renewing my life through Christ, thus purifying it.
Perhaps Luke feels the desire to do the same but in his own place of life is waylaid by what he considers ignorant .....in other words, they ignore important stuff that would further the Christian cause. I don't really know the guys true motivations for what he says and does. Thats yet to be fully revealed. I pray for his orientation though.
I consider myself a RADICAL CHRISTIAN, one that goes to the Radix (the root), to the Source, to the fundamentals....IE What Jesus really taught. Therefore, in many ways, I am a Religious Dropout.....free to get off the bus of Religion & start the process of renewing my life through Christ, thus purifying it.
Perhaps Luke feels the desire to do the same but in his own place of life is waylaid by what he considers ignorant .....in other words, they ignore important stuff that would further the Christian cause. I don't really know the guys true motivations for what he says and does. Thats yet to be fully revealed. I pray for his orientation though.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I present the following without comment believing that those who have had an experience of Grace are able to understand much of Scripture through their own study.
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1 Timothy 3:1-7
1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
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