Fundamentalists least educated

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I present the following without comment believing that those who have had an experience of Grace are able to understand much of Scripture through their own study.

1 Timothy 3:1-7
1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

OK.....let it go now.... please. Don't get obsessed like some of these creatures floating around here.

ALSO:

OldRegular has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

 

[OldRegular]

don't understand the context of the term "fundamentalist" that Luke is using it in. Is it the IFB church he is referencing? Is it the NEOCON type hard nose political type, is it the fellow who down deep feels he follows the correct A,B,C directions of a Christian so he is a fundamentalist, or is it a combination of all the above?

I consider myself a RADICAL CHRISTIAN, one that goes to the Radix (the root), to the Source, to the fundamentals....IE What Jesus really taught. Therefore, in many ways, I am a Religious Dropout.....free to get off the bus of Religion & start the process of renewing my life through Christ, thus purifying it.

Perhaps Luke feels the desire to do the same but in his own place of life is waylaid by what he considers ignorant .....in other words, they ignore important stuff that would further the Christian cause. I don't really know the guys true motivations for what he says and does. Thats yet to be fully revealed. I pray for his orientation though.

The name "Fundamentalist" has become a pejorative among many Christians. I have always considered myself a fundamentalist in that belief in certain fundamentals of the Faith are the marks of a "true believer"!. I once posted, a thread I think, on the Fundamentalist Forum asking for a definition. Did not get anywhere, obsessed I guess!:smilewinkgrin: And cleaned!

 

[Zaac]

The more "fundamentalist" the less educated.


Independent Baptists and tongue talkers are the least educated people in America according to this pew poll.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/ta...nomination.pdf

Look at those with a college degree among American denominations. The liberal Episcopal Church has the highest percentage at 30%. Second to that is the mainline Anglican Church. Then PCUSA at 23%, United Church of Christ, United Methodist at 21% and PCA is tied with Evangelical Lutheran and Nondenominational fundamentalist churches at 19%. Southern Baptists are at 14%. Independent Baptists are at 11%. The lowest is Church of God in Cleveland at 4% followed by Black Independent Baptists at 5% then at 8% are the Assemblies of God.


Except for the Presbyterian Church of America there is no other evangelical denomination that has close to 20% of its members with a college degree.

In another pew poll it appears that atheists blow church members out of the water when it comes to education.
http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/n...-demographics/

Other than black Protestant and Hispanic Catholic, White Evangelical is the poorest educated of all the groups in the study. Can you guess who the best educated is? Atheists.


Also, church members are far more likely to get divorced than atheists.
http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise-demographics/



Surely evangelicals have profaned the name of God among the heathen in this country.

They had to do a study for this? Everybody knows that the "educated" folks have always felt that conservative fundamentalists were uneducated and that's why they hold the views that they do.

It is very telling how some feel if you don't have a college degree that you are somehow uneducated yet with all of their degrees, they still reject Christ.

We need to PROPERLY re-educate the so called well educated.

 

[OldRegular]

They had to do a study for this? Everybody knows that the "educated" folks have always felt that conservative fundamentalists were uneducated and that's why they hold the views that they do.

It is very telling how some feel if you don't have a college degree that you are somehow uneducated yet with all of their degrees, they still reject Christ.

We need to PROPERLY re-educate the so called well educated.

Zaac,

Something is haywire! This is the second post of yours with which I concur, in as many days I believe.

 

[Luke2427]

They had to do a study for this? Everybody knows that the "educated" folks have always felt that conservative fundamentalists were uneducated and that's why they hold the views that they do.

That's not true, Zaac. In fact that goes to my whole point.

In Colonial days, for instance, the most educated men in the community were often the clergy.

The most fundamentalist men like Jonathan Edwards started our Ivy League Universities.

Christians, we the best educated in the land in those days.

Now, we are the least educated.

It is very telling how some feel if you don't have a college degree...

I keep saying this is not just about "college degrees." Fundamentalists and evangelicals lead the stats in failure to achieve high school diplomas as well.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac,

Something is haywire! This is the second post of yours with which I concur, in as many days I believe.

:smilewinkgrin: I told yall a long time ago that I'm probably the most conservative person on this board when it comes to God's word. Not many seem to hear that though because many think I'm pro-homosexual, pro-Obama, pro-choice and pro-Democrat and pro everything else.

And no matter how many times I have expressed the contrary, people often confuse my distaste for the place politics has taken in the lives of Christians as my distaste for a position on issues of morality. :laugh:

 

[Luke2427]

I'll settle for 500.

Start listin'.

This from the guy who has learned to deny Genesis 1.

Talk of your bad hermeneutics. :laugh:

I noticed you did not try to make a case for my bad hermeneutics. You just replaced any hermeneutics of your own with a laughy face.

So, you can just SAY it is bad hermeneutics. You don't have to show it, right?

 

[Rippon]

Christians, we the best educated in the land in those days.

Ha,ha!

 

[Zaac]

That's not true, Zaac. In fact that goes to my whole point.

In Colonial days, for instance, the most educated men in the community were often the clergy.

The most fundamentalist men like Jonathan Edwards started our Ivy League Universities.

Christians, we the best educated in the land in those days.

Now, we are the least educated.

Perhaps I should amend my statement from "always" to for the last 30 or 40 years. :laugh:

All one has to do to see this is to show up for a lecture in any state university. Or just watch MSNBC or one of the extremely liberally biased news programs. The conversations often seem to try to portray anyone who holds to a conservative Christian worldview, as backwoods, uneducated and engaged to his first cousin.

I can't even count the number of times that I've heard "they just need to be educated about the truth" when they are really saying "they need to be scientifically shown that those stories in that old book have been corrupted and disproven by our science and knowledge."

I keep saying this is not just about "college degrees." Fundamentalists and evangelicals lead the stats in failure to achieve high school diplomas as well.

Be that as it may, I still feel that completion of high school and college have very little to do with education anymore. Otherwise we wouldn't be turning out so many absolute idiots into society.

 

[Luke2427]

Ha,ha!

Wow, at the nitpicking grammar police.

Again, these are not papers we are writing. These are posts.

Sometimes I am typing them from my cell, other times I am using voice to text, other times I am typing them from computer, laptop or Ipad.

The use of most of those items means that it is tedious to go back and correct errors that do not affect the gist of what I am saying.

I should not have to explain this in a FORUM, but alas...

 

[Luke2427]

Perhaps I should amend my statement from "always" to for the last 30 or 40 years. :laugh:

All one has to do to see this is to show up for a lecture in any state university. Or just watch MSNBC or one of the extremely liberally biased news programs. The conversations often seem to try to portray anyone who holds to a conservative Christian worldview, as backwoods, uneducated and engaged to his first cousin.

I can't even count the number of times that I've heard "they just need to be educated about the truth" when they are really saying "they need to be scientifically shown that those stories in that old book have been corrupted and disproven by our science and knowledge."





Be that as it may, I still feel that completion of high school and college have very little to do with education anymore. Otherwise we wouldn't be turning out so many absolute idiots into society.

It matters. The whole world knows that it matters.

America is one of the least educated nations in the industrialized world today and Christians are leading the way in this country in that regard.

God is not pleased with our ignorance or our sorriness.

That ought to be so obvious that it goes without saying, but, sadly, as is made apparent by some on this thread, it is not obvious.

Christians lead this nation on to its demise much like priests and prophets in Jeremiah's day led Israel to her demise.

And guys like Old Regular and Rev. Mitchell DESPERATELY want to keep their heads in the sand and plunge as many other Christians heads in the sand as possible until America is just a shell of what she was.

That's the thing about guys like that- both in the Bible and here on this thread- they want to blame the evils of our days on everything but their own mentalities.

It's not the gays' fault we are in decline.

It's not the atheists' fault we are falling apart as a nation.

It's not the liberals or Obama.

It's the church in America.

You can hate the messenger all you want- but nothing is going to change the facts I have presented.

 

[DHK]

That's not true, Zaac. In fact that goes to my whole point.

In Colonial days, for instance, the most educated men in the community were often the clergy.

The most fundamentalist men like Jonathan Edwards started our Ivy League Universities.

Christians, we the best educated in the land in those days.

Now, we are the least educated.

I keep saying this is not just about "college degrees." Fundamentalists and evangelicals lead the stats in failure to achieve high school diplomas as well.

According to who?
Your data is skewed; not accurate.
I posted some of this in another thread.
First, those who call themselves atheists are often those who work in scientific fields and because of peer pressure will call themselves atheists. A belief in evolution will compel them to. They may have Ph.d.'s; in fact many of them do. Many of them will be atheists teaching as professors in their respective fields in secular universities.
So what! This does not prove anything.

A Ph.d. is not a coveted degree among pastors. It is not necessary and does not mean one is "educated." Many of our pastors have B.A.'s and are self-taught, M.A.'s and M.Div's. Many have reputable D.D.'s given on behalf of their service and accomplishments rendered.

As far as high school is considered it is doubtful that Barna takes into consideration the "home-schooled" population, which is the fastest growing movement in America, and the most popular method of education among evangelicals. There are also many unregistered home-schools that operate under the auspices of the local church. They receive a grade twelve diploma, not from the government, but one equivalent or of much more value than what the public school system could ever give out. And the community recognizes this.
In many areas of America the public school system is failing and graduating functional illiterates. Both home-schools and Christian schools do far better than that. Your data is skewed.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Do you not think we ought to do better?

Now that is a different question.

Yes, I do think we should do better. I think we should do a better job of educating our children, not just educating, but preparing them for life. I don’t think this is something we can simply put off on government schools as their responsibility. I think we need to take responsibility for our own children and prepare them to both make a living and defend their faith. But I don’t think we can measure that with diplomas and degrees.

The idea that every child needs to go to college is an invention of our government schools. But within the Fundamental Baptist world we have made it worse with some of our home grown Bible Colleges. Worse than the high school drop-out is the home school or Christian school graduate who thinks they have the knowledge they need to make it in this world.

 

[Sapper Woody]

According to who?
Your data is skewed; not accurate.
I posted some of this in another thread.
First, those who call themselves atheists are often those who work in scientific fields and because of peer pressure will call themselves atheists. A belief in evolution will compel them to. They may have Ph.d.'s; in fact many of them do. Many of them will be atheists teaching as professors in their respective fields in secular universities.
So what! This does not prove anything.

A Ph.d. is not a coveted degree among pastors. It is not necessary and does not mean one is "educated." Many of our pastors have B.A.'s and are self-taught, M.A.'s and M.Div's. Many have reputable D.D.'s given on behalf of their service and accomplishments rendered.

As far as high school is considered it is doubtful that Barna takes into consideration the "home-schooled" population, which is the fastest growing movement in America, and the most popular method of education among evangelicals. There are also many unregistered home-schools that operate under the auspices of the local church. They receive a grade twelve diploma, not from the government, but one equivalent or of much more value than what the public school system could ever give out. And the community recognizes this.
In many areas of America the public school system is failing and graduating functional illiterates. Both home-schools and Christian schools do far better than that. Your data is skewed.

I have to agree with what is posted here. According to the government, I have a GED, as I graduated homeschooled. In my 10th grade year, I took a placement test and was graded at or above college levels in math, science, and reading comprehension/vocabulary.

I am not puffing myself up. "But for the grace of God." My point is, I am above average intelligence, yet would be thrown into the category of those who did not receive a HS diploma. So the report is definitely skewed.

 

[Luke2427]

According to who?
Your data is skewed; not accurate.

The data is from Pew which is one of the most respected demographics organizations in this nation.

I posted some of this in another thread.
First, those who call themselves atheists are often those who work in scientific fields and because of peer pressure will call themselves atheists. A belief in evolution will compel them to. They may have Ph.d.'s; in fact many of them do. Many of them will be atheists teaching as professors in their respective fields in secular universities.
So what! This does not prove anything.
A Ph.d. is not a coveted degree among pastors. It is not necessary and does not mean one is "educated." Many of our pastors have B.A.'s and are self-taught, M.A.'s and M.Div's. Many have reputable D.D.'s given on behalf of their service and accomplishments rendered.

None of that changes the fact that Independent Baptists and tongue talkers lead the nation in the failure to achieve high school diplomas- not just college degrees and especially not just doctorates. We are talking about making it out of the 12th GRADE!

As far as high school is considered it is doubtful that Barna takes into consideration the "home-schooled" population, which is the fastest growing movement in America, and the most popular method of education among evangelicals. There are also many unregistered home-schools that operate under the auspices of the local church. They receive a grade twelve diploma, not from the government, but one equivalent or of much more value than what the public school system could ever give out. And the community recognizes this.

I doubt that the number of people receiving this kind of "diploma" is even remotely significant. I am willing to bet that the number of fundies receiving this type of "diploma" is so small that it would not change the stats by a hundredth of a percent.

In many areas of America the public school system is failing and graduating functional illiterates. Both home-schools and Christian schools do far better than that. Your data is skewed.

Yes, and leading the way in that illiteracy are fundamentalists and evangelicals.

 

[Luke2427]

I have to agree with what is posted here. According to the government, I have a GED, as I graduated homeschooled. In my 10th grade year, I took a placement test and was graded at or above college levels in math, science, and reading comprehension/vocabulary.

I am not puffing myself up. "But for the grace of God." My point is, I am above average intelligence, yet would be thrown into the category of those who did not receive a HS diploma. So the report is definitely skewed.

I am a GED teacher at our local prison. I don't think the stats are not including GED's. A GED is considered the equivalent of a high school diploma.

 

[DHK]

The data is from Pew which is one of the most respected demographics organizations in this nation.

That doesn't mean he has his facts right. "Stats" can be made to say anything a person wants them to say.

None of that changes the fact that Independent Baptists and tongue talkers lead the nation in the failure to achieve high school diplomas- not just college degrees and especially not just doctorates. We are talking about making it out of the 12th GRADE!

Again, that is not necessarily a "fact." It is a statistic, and no doubt a skewed statistic, not very accurate as is demonstrated by Sapper Woody.
Have you ever read the book: "Why Johnny Can't Read?" It is not speaking of Fundamentalism or even evangelicalism.

I doubt that the number of people receiving this kind of "diploma" is even remotely significant. I am willing to bet that the number of fundies receiving this type of "diploma" is so small that it would not change the stats by a hundredth of a percent.

The true "fact" is that many universities and colleges are more apt to receive a home-schooled individual than a public-schooled individual. They have had experience with the general state of public education in America.

Yes, and leading the way in that illiteracy are fundamentalists and evangelicals.

You have no actual evidence to back up your rant. That is all it is--a rant.

 

[Zaac]

It matters. The whole world knows that it matters.

America is one of the least educated nations in the industrialized world today and Christians are leading the way in this country in that regard.

God is not pleased with our ignorance or our sorriness.

I'm a bit confused here. Exactly why do I , for the sake of the Gospel and completing the Great Commission, need to be educated by the world? What will a bachelors degree do for me in terms of God's truth? In fact, the time spent pursuing a college degree in a lot of colleges today seems to be more of a miseducating rather than an educating.

That ought to be so obvious that it goes without saying, but, sadly, as is made apparent by some on this thread, it is not obvious.

Christians lead this nation on to its demise much like priests and prophets in Jeremiah's day led Israel to her demise.

Can you expound on this?

And guys like Old Regular and Rev. Mitchell DESPERATELY want to keep their heads in the sand and plunge as many other Christians heads in the sand as possible until America is just a shell of what she was.

Not sure what this is about. But I don't think you have to go to college to be educated. My granddad never went to college or finished high school for that matter. He was one of the smartest folks I ever met. And I think there are a lot of folks around like that.

That's the thing about guys like that- both in the Bible and here on this thread- they want to blame the evils of our days on everything but their own mentalities.

It's not the gays' fault we are in decline.

It's not the atheists' fault we are falling apart as a nation.

It's not the liberals or Obama.

It's the church in America.

Now THIS I agree with. But I think the church's failure is due to a lack of LOVE, not bachelors degrees.

 

[DHK]

This is serious research, not just some guy's polling and stats thrown quickly together. Read it carefully:

Quality of Education in Public Schools

admin January 21, 2012
Lately, standardized testing, education reform, and the quality of education in United States public schools are constant topics in the news. Conflicting messages make it difficult to get to the heart of the issue. Are we falling behind China when it comes to educating our children? Are we placing too much emphasis on standardized test scores? Are charter schools the answer?
America’s Founding Fathers set the bar pretty high when they envisioned a country where every citizen was entitled to a quality public education. What began as an idea grew into an ideal. Universal education for all citizens is a concept as American as apple pie and baseball. Yet, as our nation grows, our public education system has not been growing with us. Most Americans recognize that we need to make changes to our public school system to ensure all of our children receive quality education. In fact, a recent study by Phi Delta Kappa International and Gallup found:

• The public has high regard for the public schools, wants needed improvement to come through those schools, and has little interest in seeking alternatives.
• The public has high regard for the public schools, wants needed improvement to come through those schools, and has little interest in seeking alternatives.

So what exactly is the state of America’s public school system and what is the level of quality of education our students receive? It turns out that arguments over hot button issues like school choice, bilingual education, and testing miss the point entirely.
Currently, American public schools are facing some serious issues. Over the past thirty years, public school teachers have been forced to ‘do more with less’ due to budget cuts and lack of funding. At some schools students must pay cash out-of-pocket to participate in intramural sports. The lack of quality teachers presents an overwhelming challenge to both states and local school districts. Teacher shortages are most severe at the secondary level, where advanced content area expertise and academic majors in fields like math and science are vitally important for student achievement. According to the New York Times:

• The annual cost of prison for an inmate is more than double what is spent on an individual public school student.
• Eight years after Congress passed the No Child Left Behind act, with the goal of 100 percent proficiency in math and reading, most states hovered between 20 and 30 percent proficiency, and 70 percent of eighth graders could not read at grade level.
• By 2020, only an estimated 50 million Americans will be qualified to fill 123 million highly skilled, highly paid jobs.
• Among 30 developed countries, the United States ranks 25th in math and 21st in science.
• The level of quality of education American students receive compared to other nations may shock casual observers. According to the Broad Foundation on Education:
• America’s top math students rank 25th out of 30 countries when compared with
  top students elsewhere in the world.
• By the end of 8th grade, U.S. students are two years behind in the math being studied by peers in other countries.
• Sixty eight percent of 8th graders can’t read at their grade level, and most will
  never catch up.
• More than 1.2 million students drop out of school every year. That’s more than
  6,000 students every school day and one every 26 seconds.
• The national high school graduation rate is only 70 percent and rates are much lower for minority students. Only about half of the nation’s African-American and Latino students graduate on time from high school.

[/quote]
http://publicschoolsreport.com/resources/news/quality-of-education-in-public-schools/

I am sure that are Christian home-schoolers and Christian schools are doing far better than that.

 

[Zaac]

None of that changes the fact that Independent Baptists and tongue talkers lead the nation in the failure to achieve high school diplomas- not just college degrees and especially not just doctorates. We are talking about making it out of the 12th GRADE!

But what DHK mentioned here

A Ph.d. is not a coveted degree among pastors. It is not necessary and does not mean one is "educated." Many of our pastors have B.A.'s and are self-taught, M.A.'s and M.Div's. Many have reputable D.D.'s given on behalf of their service and accomplishments rendered.

is worth repeating.

There are a lot of folks getting degrees and pursuing knowledge. That doesn't make them educated. Schooled, yes. But definitely not educated. :laugh:

Yes, and leading the way in that illiteracy are fundamentalists and evangelicals.

Well, if they are learned enough to be able to walk someone through the plan of salvation, I'll start teaching them to read and write if they so desire.:smilewinkgrin: