Everytime you post, you seem to confirm my belief that you are not interested in learning. You do not seem to be even dealing with the issues scripturally. From you and Scott both, I see a lot of logic and thought, but not much Scripture. That is disappointing.
Originally posted by Chappie:
Do you suppose for a moment that God is unaware of the consequence of his actions? Truth is all are worthy of hell, the fact that god chooses some to be saved over others without a cause that is found in those chosen makes it an unjust (Justice applied with favortism) act. No pretty dress or armani suit can conceal that.
I think you have it exactly backwards. If God chooses those who choose him (something never said in Scripture incidentally ... see first paragraph), then he becomes a God of favoritism. He plays favorites to those lucky enough to hear or lucky enough to have friends that know Christ. Do you not think for one moment that when God assigned some to be born in darkest Africa that he knew he was consigning them to hell forever? Of course God knew that. So why would a God of justice allow someone to be born in a place where he knew they would never hear the gospel? If God works that way, he obviously plays favorites to those born in white, middle class America, who statistically have the greatest chance of hearing and therefore the greatest chance of being saved.
In your paragraph, you make a direct argument for a merited salvation, something that was anathema to Bible believers through the years. I don't think you even realize you have done it but read your paragraph:
god chooses some to be saved over others without a cause that is found in those chosen makes it an unjust. You are saying that God should choose people with cause. Once it is with cause, then it is no longer of grace; it has been merited. And that is simply unbiblical. That is why I say, you need to think very carefully about what you believe.
The God of Scripture respects no man, regardless of where he is born, who his friends are, what society he lives in, or how smart he is.
Possibly we are both wrong, but under no circumstances is election as you embrace it scriptural.
Then you must deal with Scripture, not me. God said it, I believe it. Pull out the concordance and start doing a study on the Greek word eklego and its cognates and related words. That is the only way to settle this issue.
Those remarks were in one of my posts, but they are not my sentiments. They are hot off the lips of another calvinist. I think that it is quite redidcelous muself.
My apologies. He was wrong. My comments stand.
Of course you have heard them all before. And you choose to remain where you are. Easier to twist the evidence than it is to leave our comfort zone. I've been believing this way for years, spoken as though longevity means correctness.
I don't believe what I do because I have rejected the evidence. I have rejected the evidence you put forth because of the weight of Scripture. But (see first paragraph) you are not dealing with much Scritpure.
You concern yourself with doing justice to scripture, yet you are not bothered to state that god arbitriarly condemns to hell according to his soverign plan. Justice for the scripture, but no nustice for the loving, just, holy nature of God.
Another prime example of either misunderstanding or misrepresentation. God does not arbitrarily condemn anyone to hell. He condemsn them because of their sin. And in so doing, he is completely just. In fact, to not do so would be to be unjust. Sin requires a just penalty.
Even if you cannot tolerate freewill, you still need to keep searching. Election is not the answer. It is wrong...
I can tolerate free will. As I have said many times, every person has a free will. That is not at issue.
Again I repeat, you are not dealing with Scripture. Start with 2 Thess 2:13 and tell us what the relationship between election and belief is. You can refer to John 6, Eph 1, Phil 1:29, Rom 8:29-30, etc. Let's talk Scripture and leave your "logic" at the door.
BTW, I noticed you haven't dealt with my questions about prayer. Why? I think they are very relevant questions that you should think through. You said you would answer some questions. Why not start with those?
[ September 20, 2002, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
