Give Me liberty, Or Give Me Justice.

Pastor Larry, I love you, and I am interested in learning. I am interested in discussing things with you, but i just am not very interested in what you are teaching. When you are ready to study together, perhaps we can engage in a learning experience. All that I have gleaned from you to this point is that you know everything, i know nothing. Now that may be true, but the all that you know is wrong.

So let me save you a few keystrokes, my interests are to study with you, believe what i choose to believe based on my understanding of scripture and rebutt the rest. Are you ready for that type of study??

So you want scriptures do you? Well even Satan can quote scriptures. Yet the very logic that you cast out the window is necessary in order to gleen what God is teaching us in scripture. You ought to try it some time. Logic, start to finish..

Pastor, you are the one caught up in this "chose" mire. I never said that God chose anyone to be saved. I say, he set the criteria for salvation,(Which is the gift of faith btw)We can either accept it, or we can reject it. God's kingdom does not suffer in the least little bit, whither we accept or reject.

You talk about luck, please. Consider the one lucky enough to be chosen by God if you want to consider luck. Consider the one unlucky enough to be chosen... Such illogical conclusions by you... You want to talk about luck. Consider the one lucky enough to be born the son of a preacher, but unlucky enough not to be chosen...

In order to say such foolishness, you deny a seculear and a biblical deffinition of the word "chose". It demands criteria. Surely a little thought and quite time should cause you to realize that.

I know that you do not know how God chose, itsa mystery. Yet perhaps you can give me an illustration where someone actually chose without criteria. Just one. We won't hold God to it... Either he chose based on criteria, or he just randomly pointed his finger. Perhaps a roll of the heavenly dice...

One simple request, show me how it is possible to chose and remain faithful to the deffinition of the word.

I say God chose no man to be saved absent the criteria for salvation. I say, God condemned no man, but we were condemned by our own deeds.

A merited salvation. you must be kidding me. I make no such claims. Now who refuses to learn, now whose is fabricating.

You got that right, that's why the scripture say, For god so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlastion life.

Did you get that, not whosoever is chosen; whosoever believeth. (Look up the word, "whosoever) And if you must be chosen to believe, then God is in the business of misleading people.

OK. let's try a little logic. If God condems men because of their sin, (hold it now) and all men are sinners; then all men are condemned. (Round peg in the round hole, square peg in the square hole). If God now chooses some and does not condemn them, (2+2+4) then not all men are condemned because of their sin. Sin requires a just penalty. Those in hell got justice, those in heaven got favoritism.. Can you not see just how unreasonable your comments are???

Not a single scripture that you have posted says anything about indivigual election. Not one. Perhaps you just left your logic at the door.

Post the scripture, tell me how to intrepret it to illustrate election. Can you do that. Like i said, anygbody can post scriptures, but do they understand what they have read. Now you need that logic stuff....

Must have overlooked them. point me to them

 

Christ paid the just penalty for His people.

Actually, those in heaven receive what is called mercy.

Ken</font>[/QUOTE]That certaintly was nice of him... I wonder what the ones that he did not die for think of him, does he even care? Who created the rest of us. Where is our messiah, who will die for us. If God did not want the rest of us, why did he create us. (Overproduction) For those that have more children than they can take care of here on this earth, we do not just destroy the children. {Perhaps we should, you say God did. is not our struggle to be more Christlike. But alas, We have wellfare. Is hellfare the answer to God's over population.

I thought that God was abundant in mercy, did he run out? Was his mercy too good to give to those that he condemned, watch out; respect of persons..

I know that you may consider my response sarcastic, but it is not intended as such. It's intent is to magnify the shortcomings of calvinism..

 

What lack of merit does God use to deny them. Only in calvinism does equal opportunity for all result in favoritism.

Ken, if God chose, he used criteria or he used the wrong word. Is that so hard to understand or to figure out. Instead of trying to distort the deffinition of the word, why not find and use the right word?

If God chose you, he used criteria in order to do so. or did he use a system of, say; every millionith person born belongs to me. Nope, that encampasses criteria.

He chose all the firstborn of Israel as his own. Is there criteria there? Let's see. Would all the first born please step forward. Oops!!! not everyone steped forward. Perhaps there is a difference between the first born and the second born....

Did he chose everyone that would that believes in him, Nope; criteria. Every ugly one, nope. If there is absolutely no difference, how does God know who he chose??

God is no respecter of persons, yet he makes no such claims concerning criteria....

Believe, faith, love, humility, charity, mercy, God loves that stuff...

 

You are making some very good points yourself. The light that is being shinned into their lives is undeniable. Yet they have become comfortable in the darkness. They know their way around there. They have become comfortable with what they cannot see. Yet with God, as long as there is breath in the body, there is hope...

 

All that i ask of you is that you admit that it exists. I am not asking that you know what it is.
Once you get past that, then you will have to biblically define "respector of persons". You will have to realize that God has established criteria for salvation that does not make him a respector of persons...