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God Creates Evil
- Thread starter drfuss
- Start date
It's actually Is. 45:7
It means God makes bad things happens sometimes. Like destroying wicked people (Sodom and Gomorrah).
Evil (Is. 45:7)
H7451
רעה רע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]
...and letting Romans torture and kill His Son. That was both bad and good.
From Chuck Smith:
Emphasis mine
This just corresponds to a saying I heard long ago that says the same as the bolded sentence: "You are free to choose, BUT you are not free to choose the consequences of your choice!"
Unfortunately, too many read only the first phrase of this quote and totally ignore the remainder; and then wonder why terrible calamities overwhelm them!!??
Add to that Is. 45:7, Amos 3:6 and Lam. 3:38. I take the position that one must interpret those verses from a Jewish mindset of that day and not the American-Greek philosophical mindset of today. They are very different.
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drfuss: Wasn't it in the plan of God for Jesus to suffer on the cross for our sins? Didn't God plan the evil suffering of Jesus on the Cross?
I think God did create evil, but for our good. Since God is the creator, if He allows evil, then I think He created it.
Marcia
Active Member
Creating evil and allowing it are two very different things. I do not think God in any way created evil.
What is evil? It's not a force roaming the universe. Evil consists of actions and thoughts against God.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Ps 24:1 The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
How did evil penetrate this creation if the creator didn't include or allow it in?
The psalms says "they that dwell therein" is the Lord's. Does this include the evil one? Why or why not?
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
How can something be found in the created if it was not included by the creator?
Ps 24:1 The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
How did evil penetrate this creation if the creator didn't include or allow it in?
The psalms says "they that dwell therein" is the Lord's. Does this include the evil one? Why or why not?
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
How can something be found in the created if it was not included by the creator?
Marcia
Active Member
When God created the angels, they were good. Satan was not evil when God created him. Satan chose to rebel, just as Adam and Eve did. This does not mean God created evil; in order to say that, you'd have to say God forced Satan to rebel.
Exactly on target Marcia,
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To interpret the meaning in the passage in Isaiah (creating evil) we must compare scriptures which clearly define God’s moral attributes. Simply for God to create evil would make God the author (cause) of sin. Comparing scripture we are plainly told God is without moral evil, therefore, He can not be the cause of it.
(Deu 32:4) He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
His work is perfect:
H8549
תּמים
tâmîym
taw-meem'
From H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth: - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.
Without iniquity:
H5766
עלהעולהעולהעולעול
‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh
eh'-vel, aw'-vel, av-law', o-law', o-law'
From H5765; (moral) evil: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).
(Jam 1:13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Another point I would like to make is “create evil” does not translate to moral evil---but in contrast to “peace” such as war, calamity or disaster, pestilence.
In Isaiah 45:7 (“and create evil”) when looking into the context God is making a glorious promise to Cyrus and contending with those that hinder Him with a curse. God is telling them to contend with their fellow creatures and not with their Creator. He makes peace, (that’s what He does) and creates evil (and this is the result) He tells them He is the Lord and is instructing them to do these things and follows by giving them a “woe” for striving against Him.
Here’s some more translations:
The NKJV
I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.'
The NLT
I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness.
I am the one who sends good times and bad times.
I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.
The ESV
“I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
The NASB
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.
NIV
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.
RSV
I form light and create darkness,
I make weal and create woe,
I am the LORD, who do all these things.
As for the misguided claim that we must think as the Jewish mindset did and not Greek philosophical mindset; I would suggest scrolling down about half way on the following link until you get to:
"Finally, we need to look at early Jewish understandings of this verse, to see to what extent they understood this to refer to moral evil or calamity."
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/iamwrong1.html
And read on!
:BangHead:
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Just because you fail to understand the Jewish mindset does not mean it did not happen from a Jewish point of view. Remember as Americans we view God from a Greek philosophy.
The verses Is. 45:7, Amos 3:6, and Lam. 3:38 are quite pointed.
Marcia
Active Member
I have not said word one about the Jewish mindset. You have me mixed up with someone else. Please re-read the thread.:wavey:
Did you not write, "Creating evil and allowing it are two very different things. I do not think God in any way created evil. What is evil? It's not a force roaming the universe. Evil consists of actions and thoughts against God."
Marcia
Active Member
Yes, but I didn't understand your remarks and since someone else had interacted re the Jewish mindset, I thought you were addressing that person. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Could you explain what you meant?
I can agree but let me ask this.
How can an angel or Adan rebel unless God included the ability to rebel?
Would the Lamb needed to be slain before the foundation of the world if Adam had a choice not to sin?
I'm not saying these things are true, just seeking your response.
The best answer comes from Scripture.
Read the verse in its context (starting from 45:1).
The most powerful Cyrus is God's anointed.
He will subdue nations,
he will paralyze kings,
he will open closed gates,
he will be blessed with knowledge and power,
... aaaaand he doesn't know the Lord.
God predicted your question, whether its translated evil or calamity.
The text continues:
How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father,
‘Why was I born?’
or if it said to its mother,
‘Why did you make me this way?’ ”
This is what the LORD says—
the Holy One of Israel and your Creator:
“Do you question what I do for my children?
Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?
I am the one who made the earth
and created people to live on it.
With my hands I stretched out the heavens.
All the stars are at my command.
Isaiah 45:10-12 NLT
Rob
God created heaven and earth and everything in it. And when he got through he said "it is all very good". There was no flaw in it. There was no evil in it. Sin entered in--evil entered in because of what Adam did. It did not enter in because of anything God did. God is holy, righteous, and good. There is no darkness in Him at all. Can't understand how some Christians hold a theology that attributes evil to God.