Yes. Salvation is a demonstration of His favor. This "favor" is inseparable from the accompanying action.
You said elsewhere that grace was an "attribute". Please make up your mind.
An attribute is that which is true of the one possessing it! God owns his grace Lock, stock, and barrel! And by george there is not one tittle of it that he can give to another, because if he did, the grace would no longer be God's grace, he's given it away! So, he gives gifts that show he has (possesses) GRACE! He Gave his only son, His Word, His Holy Spirit, and Salvation to man who believes in Him. Those are wonderful gifts out of God's grace. Ephesians 2:8,9 express that truth when it says, "for by Grace (the condition that God is operating in) we are saved through faith (all that we can possibly have) and not of ourselves (not by any merit or advantage that we perceive we may have) it (salvation) is the gift of God, not of works (deeds that we do) lest any man should boast.
These two sentences are in direct contradiction to one another. On the one hand you claim that our faith (the direct result of an independently made "good decision") is the cause of our salvation... then on the other you say it is nothing that we can boast about.
If our salvation is the result of a good decision on our part then it is certainly something to boast about.
In what way and to whom can you boast regarding your faith? Can you say that you caused that which you claim faith in? All you can claim is that you chose to believe what has been done in your behalf. Wow! Bragging rights! What glory there is believing what someone else has done for you?
I don't think so considering that you have persistently contradicted yourself, failed to account for scriptures that contradict your interpretations of passages you have attempted to use, and attempt to parse things down to the level that they become effectively meaningless.
I have not contradicted myself, nor have I demeaned anything of scripture relating to God's grace, God's salvation, God's gifts to mankind. You simply don't get it! You don't want to get it! You are so self satisfied with your man made doctrines that you cannot see the true spiritual things.
You fail to understand that grace is not an "ACT of favor", but is instead FAVOR from which other ACTS are spawned.
You are creating a false dichotomy for no other reason than convenience to your position. "Favor" is meaningless with regard to this subject if it is not accompanined by action.
Prove it! The action you speak of is the gifts given by God so that man will believe and thereby be saved.
Correct. God gave Him. This is grace.
Jesus is a man, God gave us a man out of his grace, so that we might believe! The act of giving the man is the gift out of God's grace, the man, being God, is also out of the Father's grace. If God were not "in his grace" what do you think would exist of sinful man? God would apply HIS justice to man and no man would survive...End of the human species! BUT because God is "in his grace", man has every opportunity afforded to man to hear the word, to believe and thereby be saved.
Absolutely. And it is either a) caused by God's unmerited favor toward an individual or b) by a man's merit for choosing correctly to have faith.
What merit is there in believing? One person's believing is not evident to another! You cannot walk up to a total stranger on the street and identify that person as a believer without first asking! Belief is not something that one displays. The words "I believe" are not written on one's forehead for all to see!
God did all the work, but man must believe in order to be saved!
Your analogy is flawed in that it materializes something that isn't material.
The principle holds true regardless of your inability to see it!
However, it might be useful to a certain extent. The gift itself is not love. But the giving of the gift (among other things) is an expression of love. But love cannot be separated from the expression. Without willful, chosen action, there is no love.
Can you give your love to another? No! but you can give them tokens that express your love, Valentines day has its whole basis set on that principle. You cannot give your love to another no matter what you do! Yes you can give your life for another but that is an act out of your love, and not love itself!
quote:If you wife did not respond properly but instead threw your gifts to her in the trash it or refused to accept them, it wouldn't be very long that you would realize your wife has no FAITH in your love, and you would soon be single again!
The analogy doesn't follow.
BEEN THERE, and know how it works!
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />God's grace is the same.
No. It simply is not.</font>[/QUOTE]Then it is up to you to prove!
I don't think I said that He gives us grace in this sense. You seem to be constructed another straw man.
NO strawman, but just the same, it is yours to prove!
Yes. But He also grants a quickened spirit, a new born spiritual nature by which faith in Him is an inevitable manifestation.
Define a "quickened spirit".
I do understand. I understand what you are arguing. I understand what I am arguing... and am comparing the two with as open a mind as I can.
It is still my belief that your position is not only wrong but also in contradiction to the teachings of scripture in the context of the whole.
But you have offered nothing in rebuttal! How is it possible to know that what you believe is correct and what I believe is incorrect? You simply offer nothing that refutes what I believe.
