God is Completely Sovereign or in Control of EVERYTHING that happens.

[Martin Marprelate]

There isn't ONE verse in the Bible about predestination to salvation.

That was covered, and remained unanswered by defining cross-referencing scriptures, in an entire thread.

Prove it wrong: There is not one verse about predestination to salvation

Hello George,
I answered this in posts #14, #16 and, especially, #35. If you have any comments about these posts, I'll be glad to discuss them with you as I have time.

 

[George Antonios]

Hello George,
I answered this in posts #14, #16 and, especially, #35. If you have any comments about these posts, I'll be glad to discuss them with you as I have time.

Ok, will check them out again if I haven't.

 

[AustinC]

You know, I'm a pastor (by God's grace), and an ex-Calvinist. That means I'm used to disagreements from many a quarter, but I've got to tell you Calvinist brethren, no one else looks-down-their-nose at those who disagree with them like Calvinists tend to do. Not all of course. One of the men in our church is a Calvinist. He is a kind and humble and gracious man. Interacting here with many self-righteous, pompous, conceited Calvinists makes me appreciate his spirit all the more.

LOL, George, you are a very, very opinionated man. You have openly looked down on me in other threads. It's too bad you abandoned reformed understanding of scripture. As I read scripture, I moved from a man-centered, self-in-control theology to a God is entirely Sovereign over all things theology. I would never want to go back to the cud of that theology which lowered God and lifted man up.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So the spiritually dead are physically dead. Right, got it.

The spiritually dead are not spiritually unwell; they are spiritually dead. Have you got that?
I answered your misuse of Galatians 3:24. You have not brought up your crackpot interpretation of Matthew 23:13 on this thread (not to me, anyway). I thought you might have given up on it.

 

[George Antonios]

LOL, George, you are a very, very opinionated man. You have openly looked down on me in other threads. It's too bad you abandoned reformed understanding of scripture. As I read scripture, I moved from a man-centered, self-in-control theology to a God is entirely Sovereign over all things theology. I would never want to go back to the cud of that theology which lowered God and lifted man up.

Hopefully one day I can be as humble and spiritual as you.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Since we are not talking about dead people but living people, does that change anything?

The discussion is of Ephesians 2:1; people who are 'dead in sins and transgressions.' It is the Bible that calls them dead; what do you call them?

 

[George Antonios]

Hello George,
I answered this in posts #14, #16 and, especially, #35. If you have any comments about these posts, I'll be glad to discuss them with you as I have time.

Are you sure you gave me the correct post numbers in that thread?

 

[Derf B]

Apart from The Revealed Word of God Accompanied by The Holy Spirit of God, of course.

"It is the Spirit Who Gives Life ( where there was no life, called, "Death"); the flesh profits nothing.

The Words that I Speak to you are Spirit, and they are Life (SPIRITUAL)." John 6:63

Put this verse in your profile and spend the rest of the week on your face before God asking Him for an Enlightenment of it.

Death is not the lack of life, it’s the LOSS of life. A rock is not alive, but it’s not dead, either. A corpse is dead, because it used to be alive. A person can’t be born dead, unless, they were at one time alive. Are you saying our spirits were dead at conception? Then they must have been alive before conception, but that’s not Christian doctrine.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Are you sure you gave me the correct post numbers in that thread?

Yes. They are in answer to Van and therefore are answering his points. #35 is the main one; I included the others to give you some context.

 

[George Antonios]

Yes. They are in answer to Van and therefore are answering his points. #35 is the main one; I included the others to give you some context.

Ok you meant in this thread. I was referring to the thread that was linked:
Prove it wrong: There is not one verse about predestination to salvation

 

[Derf B]

Human Beings have no will to come to God.

Human Beings Hate God and Love sin.

All Human Beings are children of Wrath and honestly DESERVE The Suffering and punishment of Hell, Forever, for their personal sins which ARE AGAINST AN ETERNAL GOD and MUST MEET WITH ETERNAL JUDGMENT.

All Human Beings Have No Capacity, Ability, Choosing, Deciding, Praying, Finitely 'believing', calling, or any other word describing their utter and total impotence and depravity as Spiritually dead to God worms.

You Must Be Born Again.

How is that 'out of context', for God-Hating sinners, who ARE CONDEMNED:

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:19

Humans have no capacity to be saved without the free gift of God’s son. They are dead in the sense that they will die without the possibility to be saved from death. Jesus fixes that problem.

Now men can hear the word, and believe, because faith comes by hearing the word, not by a magical infusion of grace apart from Christ’s sacrifice.
Romans 10:13-15 (KJV) 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

See! It’s not magical.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Ok you meant in this thread. I was referring to the thread that was linked:
Prove it wrong: There is not one verse about predestination to salvation

That thread is now closed. I don't think I contributed to it, having withdrawn from the board for a while.

 

[timtofly]

God doesn't have to force anyone to not come. By the very nature of man, a human will be in abject rebellion against God. "No one seeks after God, not even one" (Read Romans 3).
By man's very nature, he is dead in his trespasses and sins. He is imprisoned by his sins. He is hopelessly lost in the sea of his own iniquity.
My goodness, what a foolish thing to even imagine that God forces people to not come to Jesus. What perverted thought that is.

The question you must ask is this: Knowing that man is in complete rebellion and man's sins are a stench before the throne of God, what obligation does God have to free even one man from the prison of that man's own making?

Please answer that one question. Tell me what obligates God to free even one man from the prison of that man's own making.

The love of God. The love that created the heavens and the earth. God's Sovereignty is not as dire as you make it. But all are against God. So no one, not even the elect comform to God’s love by nature and being born.

 

[timtofly]

Every Human Being and bird HAVE THE FREEDOM to Fly to The Moon.

Their Free Will does not, however, have the ABILITY to Fly to The Moon.

I see where AustinC is asking you about 'God's Obligation'.

If I ask you, "why would God Save you, or anyone else?"

Would you say that God is Obligated?

Remember, with that reasoning of yours, on God's Playing Field that GOD HATES SIN.

Flying to the moon is not even God's will, why be silly?

 

[George Antonios]

I've noticed that one of the sources of our disagreements with Calvinists is that they take the contextual truths of some verses and apply them in a way that is 1) blanket and 2) absolute.

 

[timtofly]

The discussion is of Ephesians 2:1; people who are 'dead in sins and transgressions.' It is the Bible that calls them dead; what do you call them?

They are dead in sin. I call them normal people. Since I do not know much about you, I would say you are still dead in sin as well. Nothing has changed since your birth.

Yes we can know we are in Christ and yes we have a new outlook on life. But you are still the you as you were born. Death has no sting, but you are still you. Other than some doctrine, which is a mind thought, not you; do you have a mark or certificate from God that identifies a different you, from the you as a new born baby?

Only by fruit can one be known. But even fruit can be deceiving. Wolves can have the same fruit.

However, spiritual death started with Adam, but nothing died. The term dead in sin is the physical condition. The term dead in Christ is about a spiritual condition that is dead to the flesh, but these are figures of speech. It is not wrong to use them. When it comes to a dead spirit, that is a literal thing, and should not be conflated with spiritual death. The death of the spirit is reserved for the lake of fire and the second death. A reprobate mind does not kill a spirit. It means the spirit is now a demon.

 

[Alan Gross]

this is my reply to, "Flying to the moon is not even God's will, why be silly?"

from: #134timtofly,



You Equate "Free Will" to sin and do nothing but sin,

...with a "Free Will" that is able to sprout wings and Fly across The Atlantic.

The Free Will of a Human Being who tries to Fly across The Atlantic, or even to The Moon, will do something VERY BIBLICAL and not 'silly' at all.

Do you know what it is?

 

[Alan Gross]

Death is not the lack of life, it’s the LOSS of life. A rock is not alive, but it’s not dead, either. A corpse is dead, because it used to be alive. A person can’t be born dead, unless, they were at one time alive. Are you saying our spirits were dead at conception? Then they must have been alive before conception, but that’s not Christian doctrine.

Help, a rock is dead, man.

The well need not a Physician.

 

[Alan Gross]

Humans have no capacity to be saved without the free gift of God’s son. They are dead in the sense that they will die without the possibility to be saved from death. Jesus fixes that problem.

Now men can hear the word, and believe, because faith comes by hearing the word, not by a magical infusion of grace apart from Christ’s sacrifice.
Romans 10:13-15 (KJV) 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

See! It’s not magical.

Spiritually lost, dead in trespasses and sins, sinners in The Hands of an Angry God is normal, natural, and universal.

Humans have no capacity to be saved without the free gift of God’s son.

All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.

"Humans have no capacity to be saved without the free gift of God’s son".

God Chose to Save some, Whom His Son Said that The Father Had Given Him, and Jesus Died for them, was Buried for them, and Rose Again, for them.

"Humans have no capacity to be saved without the free gift of God’s son".

God Chose to Save some.

If He Had not, "Humans have no capacity to be saved without the free gift of God’s son".

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8.

...
You wrote this:

Now men can hear the word, and believe, because faith comes by hearing the word, not by a magical infusion of grace apart from Christ’s sacrifice.
Romans 10:13-15 (KJV)

God Didn't.

See! It’s not magical.

Lost sinners Must Be Born Again.

Lost sinners Must Be Given The Enablement of The Holy Spirit, through The New Birth, to HEAR and BELIEVE, with Saving Belief.

When The Holy Spirit Accompanies The Word of God in the deceitful and desperately wicked heart of the Spiritually dead sinner, The Holy Spirit CONVICTS that sinner that The Have No Ability to chose, believe, have faith, decide, pray, count beads, or any other work.

The Holy Spirit Shows a lost sinner their condition before Almighty God, which is HOPELESS, WITHOUT STRENTH, 100% FLESH, and Undone.

If not, they have nothing to Repent of and agree with God about, to Turn to Jesus.

Belief in Jesus is not Historical, like believing in Christopher Columbus.

Sinners who have never been Granted and Given CONVICTION that they are LOST, have never Been Given Repentance or Saving Faith.

Once I was blind.

The well need not a Physician.

What would you have me to do, Lord?

Deny His Sovereignty with enmity and Hateful lust, before all of the World?

Nope.

Not as a Saved soul.

 

[timtofly]

You Equate "Free Will" to sin and do nothing but sin,

...with a "Free Will" that is able to sprout wings and Fly across The Atlantic.

The Free Will of a Human Being who tries to Fly across The Atlantic, or even to The Moon, will do something VERY BIBLICAL and not 'silly' at all.

Do you know what it is?

I see you have no ability to change your will. Since I never said you could will yourself elected, how can you claim you can will to do anything?

Did I once equate free will to sin? Free will is the ability to choose without outside force. Sin is the result of any choice. By your logic, God just removes all wrong choices and you can only do God’s will. That is not in the Bible.

God did that to Pharoh and Nebuchadnezzer, yes, but you apply that to everyone? How does that work out? We are just programmed and have no will at all? The Bible states we do have wills. Nor does God take away all the wrong choices for the elect. We still have to confess the wrong results of the choices we made. Because it is very easy to make choices.