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God is the Author of sin.
- Thread starter johnp.
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Yes, he does. He denies that humans have wills of their own. He believes that God's will is what is working when a human wills to sin. In other words, God is forcing man to sin. Ergo, God sins. I'm sure Johnp will protest my conclusion - he'll probably say that to God, it is not sin, because he can do what he wants to, including violate his own holiness.npetreley said:
He who hires a hitman is guilty of murder.npetreley said:
Probably not the best analogy to Johnp's theology, because God would be the conspirer and the hitman. Johnp has admitted that we are essentially puppets. Maybe a better analogy would be a conspirer hires a severely mentally handicapped person and essentially coerces him to muder someone.
Ultimately, this warped theology ends up being a kind of pantheism - that God is everything.
Does this answer your question Isaiah?
Even if Adam's sin had brought death and decay, not only to mankind but also to the animals, Scripture insists that not one sparrow can die apart from God's will (Matthew 10:29). That is, if there is any connection between moral evil and natural evil, the connection is not inherent (as if anything is inherent apart from God's will), but rather sovereignly imposed by God. Even the seemingly insignificant cannot occur without, not merely the permission, but the active will and decree of God. Christians are not deists – we do not believe that this universe operates by a set of natural laws that are independent from God. The Bible shows us that God is now actively running the universe, so that nothing can happen or continue apart from God's active power and decree (Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3). If we should use the term at all, what we call "natural laws" are only descriptions about how God regularly acts, although he is by no means bound to act in those ways. (Page 66.)
john.
The Scriptures tell again and again of God raising up a nation to go against Israel for instance . They do their dirty deeds including raping and general wickedness . Then the Lord punishes them for doing what He ordained them to do . He mastered their will to do what He wanted . Of course they had plenty of natural evil to joyfully accept their task .
CHS :" Laborers Together "
The following pertains to something John P brought up earlier .
Because God acts in a certain way they call his method of action a law , and straightway they speak of these laws as if they were forces and powers in and of themselves , and thus God is banished out of His own universe , and His place is taken up in the scientific world by idols called 'natural laws'...
It is easy to make idols out of second causes , and to forget the God who is everywhere present , causing all things to work together for good .
The following pertains to something John P brought up earlier .
Because God acts in a certain way they call his method of action a law , and straightway they speak of these laws as if they were forces and powers in and of themselves , and thus God is banished out of His own universe , and His place is taken up in the scientific world by idols called 'natural laws'...
It is easy to make idols out of second causes , and to forget the God who is everywhere present , causing all things to work together for good .
I see no real difference. He created all men as they are, as sinners who will sin. Only if you deny omniscience can this be true but then you are left with criminal negligence that could be stopped by Him but isn't.
Yes Allan, with minor reservations.
The Lord gives and takes away Andy T.
Creation is separate from Him but controlled by Him. In the beginning God created...
john.
However, this is not to distance God from evil, for to "author" the sin implies far more control over the sinner and the sin than to merely tempt. Whereas the devil (or a person's lust) may be the tempter, and the person might be the sinner, it is God who directly and completely controls both the tempter and the sinner, and the relationship between them.
And although God is not himself the tempter, he deliberately and sovereignly sends evil spirits to tempt (1 Kings 22:19–23) and to torment (1 Samuel 16:14–23, 18:10, 19:9). But in all of this, God is righteous by definition. (Page 6 The Author of Sin Vincent Cheung. www.rmiweb.org )
He does don't He webdog? Answer this question and you will at least be acknowledging scripture.
john.
Here's what we're trying to get at:
In other words, it seems that you have God the active agent in sinful acts in exactly the same way he's the active agent in righteous acts.
I doubt that any Calvinist disagrees with this as it's stated here. Nothing is accomplished by mere permission. Sinful acts are accomplished by the "will and decree of God" in conjunction with the permission of the evil deed. But reading your posts has made me think that it isn't just mere permission you object to, but any suggestion that permission has a part in God's accomplishment of evil deeds.johnp. said:
In other words, it seems that you have God the active agent in sinful acts in exactly the same way he's the active agent in righteous acts.
JOB 9:23 When a scourge brings sudden death, he mocks the despair of the innocent. 24 When a land falls into the hands of the wicked, he blindfolds its judges. If it is not he, then who is it?
JOB 42:7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Is it Amy.G?
john.
psalms109:31
Active Member
wicked
Ezekiel 28:15
You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:15
You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
Brother Bob
New Member
James, chapter 1
13: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15: Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16: Do not err, my beloved brethren.
God is NOT the author of sin.
13: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15: Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16: Do not err, my beloved brethren.
God is NOT the author of sin.
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