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God's CHOSEN are always SAVED
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
Excuse me for believing the Word of God.
Heb 2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus --
Remember we are speaking of the Word made flesh here. God, was he actually made some less than the angels? Even for a little while?
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; Acts 2:30
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2 Tim 2:8
Is that the gospel Paul was so adamant about in Galatians?
Remember we are speaking of the Word made flesh here, God, was he actually the seed of David?
What do you believe was, the obedience, that Jesus learned (experienced even if you will, after all, we do learn through experience) through the things he suffered, unto death? Remember the passage even states that this was Son.
What was it the obedience of
I'm not sure what you mean by created. I believe the Word was made flesh and I believe the Word was made flesh in the manner stated in Matt 1: 20-25 and was called Jesus as God told both Mary and Joseph
I believe: τὸ γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου - the for in her conceived (whatever that means relative to a woman) out of Spirit is Holy and I believe Mary was a virgin and brought forth as a virgin the Word made flesh and named him Jesus.
Now if that is created to you then I must believe he was created but to me it is what God states by the Holy Spirit as having taken place.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Here is another proof of how God is Christ and Christ is God, that they are all of One Holy Spirit.
Which some may not have noticed,
Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
Christ, the eternally blessed God. Who came according to the flesh. that is a real test of the spirits. (both of men, angel and demon) False lying spirits will deny this being antichrists.
1 John 2
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
Which some may not have noticed,
Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
Christ, the eternally blessed God. Who came according to the flesh. that is a real test of the spirits. (both of men, angel and demon) False lying spirits will deny this being antichrists.
1 John 2
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
It is God, walking in step with his essence. Fully human, fully God.
You are still skirting my question, percho. Discerning people will recognize.
percho, again, you are being sly. Why is that so?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Austin,
I don't see him skirting anything.
To me, you two are talking past each other.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
So does the Scripture.
See John 1:1-13, 1 John 5:7 ( oh, sorry, some Bibles don't seem to have that ), Matthew 28:19 and many others.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
"Before Abraham was, I AM".
I agree.
Again I agree.
But to me, the Scriptures that state that faith is "of Christ" and authored and finished by Him, means that while He lived among us the first time, the faith we now possess was not only created by Him during His sufferings, but was then given to us to use during all of our trials and tribulations as believers in this life.
So even though God doesn't need faith, we do...
And, since it is a miraculous and supernatural faith that remains when other types of "faith" fail,
then I conclude that whoever has it is sure to endure to the end, no matter what.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Amen.
Double Amen.
Hmmm...
As a man, or as God?
To me, this gets a bit dicey and constitutes a very fine point of understanding regarding God's word.
Perhaps a thread is needed to hammer it out?
Tentatively I agree with you.
But I'm also being mindful that something that men do not possess, naturally ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ) has to be provided by the Lord to carry His elect through to their eventual and sure salvation...
The power of God through faith ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).
Yep.
I understand your feelings on the matter,
and my firm belief is that none of us should be attempting to reduce the Lord Jesus to the position as just a man, my friend.
In the meantime, may I suggest Romans 12 and Galatians 5:13-15?
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Maybe. I didn't ask a nuanced question, yet I receive a nuanced answer. Why is that?Austin,
I don't see him skirting anything.
To me, you two are talking past each other.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
So does the Scripture.
See John 1:1-13, 1 John 5:7 ( oh, sorry, some Bibles don't seem to have that ), Matthew 28:19 and many others.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
"Before Abraham was, I AM".
I agree.
Again I agree.
But to me, the Scriptures that state that faith is "of Christ" and authored and finished by Him, means that while He lived among us the first time, the faith we now possess was not only created by Him during His sufferings, but was then given to us to use during all of our trials and tribulations as believers in this life.
So even though God doesn't need faith, we do...
And, since it is a miraculous and supernatural faith that remains when other types of "faith" fail,
then I conclude that whoever has it is sure to endure to the end, no matter what.
God has dealt (given) to each one a measure of faith.
No unbelievers has God given any faith in Christ and He never will.
For you to have faith, believe and be saved, God has to create you as a new creature in Christ.
God through Christ has made all things through Him, including your new spirit.
The old self, the old man is tied to the flesh and the devil, being born in that world that is all the old nature can know anything about.
All things are of, to, through and for Him.
Why does not even this one verse settle it forever, the question of where our faith comes, it comes through Him.
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
Meaning of HAS DEALT, our faith
So God has imparted, bestowed, distributed upon us our measure of faith. Faith in what? Well faith in His son Christ. We all have different amounts of that too. But to be a part of the body of Christ, all must have been dealt faith that saves.
G3307 - merizō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
G3307
to divide
- to separate into parts, cut into pieces
- to divide into parties, i.e. be split into factions
- to distribute
- a thing among people
- bestow, impart
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Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
So what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Scripturally, the chicken came first.
Apply that to being born again, we are Born Again first, John 3, then we can see the kingdom of God, recognize who Christ is as God come in the flesh, then we confess Christ as our Lord God. This is what it means to be 'OF GOD', created as a new creature in Christ, we are not given an egg of faith that must be hatched to become a person of faith. There is no evolution here, no slowly changing of one kind to another, we are translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Light of His dear Son, in an instant we are transformed. We do not evolve, we were not, and then we are.
God calls things that are not as though they were.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
John 8:47
He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
If we are of God, then when Christ is revealed to us in our life, we will love Him.
If we are not of God, then we will not listen to Christ.
Scripturally, the chicken came first.
Apply that to being born again, we are Born Again first, John 3, then we can see the kingdom of God, recognize who Christ is as God come in the flesh, then we confess Christ as our Lord God. This is what it means to be 'OF GOD', created as a new creature in Christ, we are not given an egg of faith that must be hatched to become a person of faith. There is no evolution here, no slowly changing of one kind to another, we are translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Light of His dear Son, in an instant we are transformed. We do not evolve, we were not, and then we are.
God calls things that are not as though they were.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
John 8:47
He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
If we are of God, then when Christ is revealed to us in our life, we will love Him.
If we are not of God, then we will not listen to Christ.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
The call of us all to the faith accomplished in us by God (Christ) Himself
The scripture, "when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me,"
Is critical to understanding this being of God, and it works like this for all who find themselves in Christ, that it is not taught by any man, it is not learned, it is by revelation of Jesus Christ right to your new spirit in Christ.
Galatians 1
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
The scripture, "when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me,"
Is critical to understanding this being of God, and it works like this for all who find themselves in Christ, that it is not taught by any man, it is not learned, it is by revelation of Jesus Christ right to your new spirit in Christ.
Galatians 1
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
I do not believe you or any other Gentile is elect and Romans 9 was written to the Jews
Romans 9:1-10 read it to find out for your self the whole chapter is about the Jews not Gentiles
MB
Sigh, Romans 9 is written to the elect, as is the entire Bible. The elect are chosen from every nation, tribe and tongue.
By choosing to reject some scripture as not important to you, you declare God's word irrelevant. I read that All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
~ 2 Timothy 3:16-17
I don't see where I can dismiss passages that make me uncomfortable by saying that verse isn't beneficial to me, therefore I will not accept it as truth.
I do not reject scripture that's your tricks. You have not one verse that proves you are elect..It's all in your imagination or the one who told you this farce.
Here is a scripture you dismiss:
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
This you do not pay any attention to because it does not agree with Calvinism. This you have to change so that it lines up with Calvinism
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
MB
Sigh, there are passages showing that we who believe are elect/chosen by God. I encourage you to look up chosen and elect to see the wonderful amount of verses.View attachment Predestined and Chosen Verses.pdf
Then why haven't you shown them?. I don't believe you. I think you're full of bull. You make all these claims and you don't know what you are talking about. You are dead wrong there are no verses in scripture that clearly state that Gentiles are elect too. That is false or you would have shown them by now.
MB
I am not skirting anything. I have stated and asked many times; I Am that I Am is literally or is stated many places as being literally I shall be who I shall be. Tell them, I shall be, sent me. Future tense. Jesus said I Am. Literally, I Am. I have stated I believe I Am is fulfillment of, I shall be. NOW.
Jesus told Peter in answer to Peter answering Jesus's question; Who say ye that I am.
Peter's answer. 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.'
Jesus. And Jesus answering said to him, 'Happy art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens.
What does all that mean. Is it relative? Play on words? In the John 8 passage you used above Jesus tells the Jews states or implies that the One they called their God from the OT scriptures is his Father whatever that means and he told the woman at the well that the Father seeks the ones worshiping him, Spirit the God John 4:23 into 24
Now to me that makes perfect sense relative to Matt 1 and the birth of Christ. I shall be, Spirit the God sends the Word made flesh through woman, Son of God, I Am.
And the messenger said to her, 'Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus; he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, Luke 1:30.32
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2 Tim 2:8
who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. 1 Peter 1:21
“This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:32,33
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; Gal 1:1
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal 3:16
And on top of all that, I believe Jesus is God the I Am. The Son of God is also the Son of Man.
I believe the Word of God.