going to church 3 times a week

[Tom Butler]

I've been doing some ruminating about this issue.

One of the questions that came to mind is, how did the practice of Sunday p.m. and Wednesday services come about? Does anybody know the history of this practice?

Whenever it started, the church decided as a congregation to institute this idea. So there was probaby a vote somewhere along the line. So those who voted for Sunday p.m. and Wednesday presumably supported it with their presence'; and made it a priority on their schedule. Would it be fair to say that they did not view such attendance as a burden? Can we say that they obligatedthemselves to attend? If so, then attending out of obligation is not a bad thing after all.

That brings us to now, and to those who do not feel the same sense of obligation as our forebears. They have brought us to the point where a tiny minority of members supports Sunday evening services and an even tinier minority supports Wednesday night gatherings. How did we get here, where a majority of members not only don't feel a commitment to support the church services, but actually don't want to go; and feel that they're not worth their time and have no value for them?

I raise this question: should a minority of members dictate to the majority? Should we just kill those services because a majority votes against them with their absence?

Oops, that won't work. To answer yes to the above question would kill off most Sunday morning services as well, since about 60-70% of the members don't attend them, either.

I detect an attitude in today's culture which likens a church to a cafeteria. It exists only to serve me and my needs, so I may pick and choose those services and activities which do that, and may freely ignore the rest. This attitude ignores the fact that those who serve you do so out of obligation. And if they don't show up........?

Let me make sure I'm being clear. I'm not talking about how many times you're at the church each week. I don't care. If your church meets on Sunday morning only, fine. Kid's soccer game? Fine. This is not about circumstances. This is about attitude.

 

[Pastor Larry]

It exists only to serve me and my needs, so I may pick and choose those services and activities which do that, and may freely ignore the rest.

I think this is so key, Tom. In the buffet line of Christianity, we think we can pick and choose. If the church interferes with my plans, I abandon the church. I think that attitude of dispensability is a dangerous one. And like you, I am not talking about the number of services. I am talking about attitude.

Why do some consider it wrong to go to church out of obligation? Why is that a bad thing?

 

[tinytim]

I've been on a kick lately about how the church is not there to serve it's members... but the members serve the church...

If you don't want to serve the church, remove your membership.
If the church is not important enough to attend reguarly (notice I am not counting the number of times, but just "reguarly") then don't go. Churches today are dragging around too much dead weight as it is.

This may sound harsh, but not as harsh as when you stand before God, and He asks why you didn't support the services of your church....and all you have to say is, "I didn't want to" or "I didn't feel like it" or "I was too busy" Christ didn't want to go to Calvary.. (prayer in Garden), He didn't feel like being crucified, and I am sure he could have found other things to do.

If you don't like the services your church has, find another church that "caters" to your likes... but be prepared to give an explanation to God.

Again, it is not about the number of times you attend, but your attitude about coming to church...
You could be there 12 times a week, but if your attitude stinks, it will mean nothing... you can go 1 time a week, and if your attitude is right, it could mean everything....

(And by using the word "You" I mean no one in particular, just Christians in general)

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If one has no desire to be in the Church every time the doors are open, something is wrong with that one's spiritual walk.

Scripture clearly shows we are to seek after the things of God... going to Church included.

If you dread going to Church, if you feel you don't need but one service a week, what next? You don't need to pray as much? You don't need to read the Word of God as much?

 

[webdog]

What would a thread be without HBSMN calling out the spirituality of other believers

 

[webdog]

I think this is so key, Tom. In the buffet line of Christianity, we think we can pick and choose. If the church interferes with my plans, I abandon the church.

...and what if it's God's plans for you to be some place besides Church?

Why do some consider it wrong to go to church out of obligation? Why is that a bad thing?

Does God want our love and worship out of obligation...or because we truly desire Him? Forced love is not love.

 

[webdog]

I've been doing some ruminating about this issue.

One of the questions that came to mind is, how did the practice of Sunday p.m. and Wednesday services come about? Does anybody know the history of this practice?

Whenever it started, the church decided as a congregation to institute this idea. So there was probaby a vote somewhere along the line. So those who voted for Sunday p.m. and Wednesday presumably supported it with their presence'; and made it a priority on their schedule. Would it be fair to say that they did not view such attendance as a burden? Can we say that they obligatedthemselves to attend? If so, then attending out of obligation is not a bad thing after all.

That brings us to now, and to those who do not feel the same sense of obligation as our forebears. They have brought us to the point where a tiny minority of members supports Sunday evening services and an even tinier minority supports Wednesday night gatherings. How did we get here, where a majority of members not only don't feel a commitment to support the church services, but actually don't want to go; and feel that they're not worth their time and have no value for them?

I raise this question: should a minority of members dictate to the majority? Should we just kill those services because a majority votes against them with their absence?

Oops, that won't work. To answer yes to the above question would kill off most Sunday morning services as well, since about 60-70% of the members don't attend them, either.

I detect an attitude in today's culture which likens a church to a cafeteria. It exists only to serve me and my needs, so I may pick and choose those services and activities which do that, and may freely ignore the rest. This attitude ignores the fact that those who serve you do so out of obligation. And if they don't show up........?

Let me make sure I'm being clear. I'm not talking about how many times you're at the church each week. I don't care. If your church meets on Sunday morning only, fine. Kid's soccer game? Fine. This is not about circumstances. This is about attitude.

Your entire post is based on a majority vote of members. Since I have problems with congregationally ran churches (I feel Scripture teaches they are to be Elder led), a majority vote by members (who we don't know the spirituall condition of) is pointless. Our Elder led church decided on Sunday morning services with various small groups throughout the week. Am I sinning by not attending Sunday night services someplace...and Wednesday night since other believer do? Are they more "spiritual" or committed?
We also have Thursday night prayer meeting at another location. I work second shift. Do I need to quit my job so I can attend the Thursday night prayer meeting?
This thread is HEAVY on legalism.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It is not God's plan for people to forsake the assembling of themselves together. If it were, that verse commanding the reader to do so would not be included in the book of Hebrews.

As I said, first fall out of some church services, then pray less, then read the Word of God less. A gradual degredation of man.

The same degradation one sees in Psalm 1:1

First man is slacking up, seeking advice from the world instead of godly counsel in the House of God. Then, he quits walking with God in prayer. Lastly, he just sits down with the world and doesn't even read the Word.

 

[dan e.]

agreed, webdog.

 

[tinytim]

If one has no desire to be in the Church every time the doors are open, something is wrong with that one's spiritual walk.

Scripture clearly shows we are to seek after the things of God... going to Church included.

If you dread going to Church, if you feel you don't need but one service a week, what next? You don't need to pray as much? You don't need to read the Word of God as much?

That may apply to small country churches... but not to large churches that has 2 or 3 meetings each and every day...
People have to live life also...
Some have mens, womens, childrens, youth, small groups, missions, etc. meetings throughout the week. I served in one where the front door was a perpetual swinging door all week long.. anytime you went there, there was something going on...

We have to get out of this small country mindset to move a church from a small church to a large one...
Legalism will kill a large church... or at least work the members to death lol

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If one is advocating doing the things of God, it cannot be legalism.

Even the disciples knew there should be a zeal for the house of God.

The early church met house to house daily. I would not call advocating people being in the house of God legalism.

 

[dan e.]

How is being elsewhere on an occasion foresaking to assemble??

I think you're to quick to judge someone for going somewhere else on a Sunday evening, or a Wednesday night, as being someone who is completely forsaking to assemble.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It was stated earlier that one chose to go to a son's game over church.

Is not that putting the things of the world above the things of God? Is not that forsaking the assembling of the body?

Many use excuses such as the one above to stay out of church. I cannot find Scripture condoning it.

Maybe the issue in this thread is not legalism, but liberalism.

 

[James_Newman]

I gotta agree with HBSMN on this one. Over and over, Paul speaks of how he longs to be with the brethren. 1 John tells us that having fellowship with God is having fellowship with God's people.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Jude 1:18-21
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

We should be very wary of any desire to abstain from fellowship with our brothers and sisters.

 

[webdog]

It was stated earlier that one chose to go to a son's game over church.

Is not that putting the things of the world above the things of God? Is not that forsaking the assembling of the body?

Many use excuses such as the one above to stay out of church. I cannot find Scripture condoning it.

Maybe the issue in this thread is not legalism, but liberalism.

Oh, it's definately legalism. I cannot find Scripture condoning the attendance of every manmade meeting time, either. It is man that decided on Sunday night services. It's man that decided on meeting Wednesday nights. It's man that decides on every womans, mens, youth, etc. Not attending every time the doors are open is not liberalism.

If spending time with my son means missing a Wednesday night meeting...so be it. Has nothing to do whatsoever with my spiritual walk.

 

[Pastor Larry]

...and what if it's God's plans for you to be some place besides Church?

How would you know if that was God's plan? It seems to me, from what I can tell in the NT, is that God's plan is the meet with the church. He didn't put a limit on it, as some people seem to want to do. So I think the burden of proof is on you, isn't it?

Our Elder led church decided on Sunday morning services with various small groups throughout the week. Am I sinning by not attending Sunday night services someplace...and Wednesday night?
We also have Thursday night prayer meeting at another location. I work second shift. Do I need to quit my job so I can attend the Thursday night prayer meeting?
This thread is HEAVY on legalism.

It's also heavy on silliness, as this response shows. The point has been made throughout, it seems to me, that the issue is when your church meets. If your church doesn't meet at a particular time, then I have not seen anyone suggest you should go to another at that time. In fact, I would encourage you not to.

I am not sure on what basis you pull out the legalism card. What do you think legalism is? And how does that apply here?

 

[annsni]

I've only been in larger churches (hundreds of congregants) with lots of different things going on each night. Our church is open Tuesday through Friday from basically 8 AM to about 11 PM - and on Sunday from 8 AM through about 2. We don't have Sunday night services because our pastor felt that Sunday night was best set aside for family.

I do not see ANY correlation in Scripture about being more Godly the more you are in church. The new believers met from house to house - they got together. They didn't hit the church sanctuary multiple times a week. We have small groups at our church and that is more in the way of the New Testament churches - meeting in the home for worship, prayer and encouragement of one another - as well as discussing God's Word and really working on application.

We also have a Wednesday night program. For the little ones, we have a nice program called KidStuf and it's skits, singing and videos - a lot of fun but not necessarily deep for the kids. It's a fun night but not one I feel we need to be at all the time. Also on Wednesday night is the jr. high youth group - we don't have anyone in jr. high right now. Lastly we have 2 classes for adults (kind of our equivalent to Sunday School) - one is Alpha which is a class teaching the basic tenants of faith and the other is actually a support group for those who have been through a divorce. So, where does my family fit in? We CAN go to KidStuf because we have 2 little ones and we try to go but there are nights where baseball practice runs late and we're shot - DH gets to church at 8 AM on Wednesdays and I'm there from 9:30 til after lunch - homeschooling and attending meetings. If we miss a meeting for the kids - that isn't THAT theologically deep and challenging - and instead come home for a time of family worship, then that's fine. It has nothing to do at all about our "Christianity" but about what's best for our family.

Now, we may be a little different because we are a pastor's family (one of 9 pastors at our church) so atleast DH is expected to be at a lot of things, and I'm an employee too and am at a lot of things - and I have kids from preschool to high school so THEY are involved in a lot - but we don't have to be there every time the doors are open because it just doesn't involve us! If it does, we attempt to be there but there are times it's just not good. That doesn't mean we don't love the Lord at all - and it doesn't mean that we're going to be walking away from Him anytime soon. I think that's reading a lot into someone's heart and God's the one who should be doing that.

Honestly? I'd rather have a zeal for God than church. God is the one who has saved me - not church.

 

[webdog]

I gotta agree with HBSMN on this one. Over and over, Paul speaks of how he longs to be with the brethren. 1 John tells us that having fellowship with God is having fellowship with God's people.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Jude 1:18-21
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

We should be very wary of any desire to abstain from fellowship with our brothers and sisters.

I think you are missing the point. It's not a desire to abstain from fellowship with our church family, but a mandated order that fellowship every time the doors are open is required for a good spiritual walk. I love going to church and being with my church family. Tonight's our small group night...and I can't wait! However, if I had to work tonight, or go to a family member's home, or even if my wife and son just needed to spend some quality time with me, I will miss group, and I believe God does't look down on that. Divorces happen all over America because a husband will forsake his family and put the church family over his. I believe this is wrong.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Oh, it's definately legalism. I cannot find Scripture condoning the attendance of every manmade meeting time, either. It is man that decided on Sunday night services. It's man that decided on meeting Wednesday nights. It's man that decides on every womans, mens, youth, etc. Not attending every time the doors are open is not liberalism.

On waht biblical basis would you not attend a meeting of the church?

If spending time with my son means missing a Wednesday night meeting...so be it.

Why would spending time with your son mean missing Wednesday night (or however your church is set up)? There are 167 other hours during the week that you could spend with him. Or you could take him with you to church. Novel idea, I know. But one worthy of consideration.

I am a strong believer that the best thing a dad can do for his family is have them in church. If that hour on Wednesday night is the only time you can spend with your son, then you are way too busy.

 

[annsni]

I gotta agree with HBSMN on this one. Over and over, Paul speaks of how he longs to be with the brethren. 1 John tells us that having fellowship with God is having fellowship with God's people.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Jude 1:18-21
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

We should be very wary of any desire to abstain from fellowship with our brothers and sisters.

But is this ever stated to be in the church building? What about if I miss the Wednesday night program (that honestly has nothing to offer for me) to get together with fellow believers for fellowship and prayer? I've done that before - when none of us were involved in anything on Wednesday night. I've gone out with other moms after we dropped off our kids at youth group (they have plenty of staff - and I've worked with the senior high but I'm talking about junior high) and gone for a cup of coffee and a time of encouragement. I think THAT is even more like the NT church than sitting in a building listening to someone else preach at me.