going to church 3 times a week

[StefanM]

Hey webdog,

How about we start a church plant---we'll have services in rotation every 6 hours all day, every day.

If anyone doesn't come to all of them, then that's between them and God .

 

[webdog]

Why only 12 hours a day? Are you being sucked into the world, StefanM? If you sleep for 8 hours, that leaves 4 more hours to attend church!

 

[SaggyWoman]

It isn't about Sunday AM, PM, and Wednesday. It is about a relationship. Sorry that isn't a mark of being a Christian.

 

[Tom Butler]

Your entire post is based on a majority vote of members. Since I have problems with congregationally ran churches (I feel Scripture teaches they are to be Elder led), a majority vote by members (who we don't know the spirituall condition of) is pointless.

Elder-led or congregationally run--my point remains the same.

Our Elder led church decided on Sunday morning services with various small groups throughout the week.

The point is, the elders and the church decided. And what they decided is fine by me.

Am I sinning by not attending Sunday night services someplace...and Wednesday night since other believer do? Are they more "spiritual" or committed?

The correct answers are no, no and no. My whole point was not about going to church on Sunday nights and Wednesdays. It is definitely not about going every time the doors open. I'm mainly referring to those times the church has set aside for corporate worship and/or Bible study, whenever they are.

We also have Thursday night prayer meeting at another location. I work second shift. Do I need to quit my job so I can attend the Thursday night prayer meeting?
This thread is HEAVY on legalism.

Have I been so unclear that you feel the need to ask this question?

The correct answer is No.

 

[Tom Butler]

Original quote by Tom Butler

Why do some consider it wrong to go to church out of obligation? Why is that a bad thing?

Does God want our love and worship out of obligation...or because we truly desire Him? Forced love is not love.

I agree with you so let me clarify what I meant by that statement.

The obligations I referred to are those which are freely and willingly assumed. When you agree to teach a Bible Study, you have assumed the obligation to show up prepared to teach. You join the choir, you take on the obligation to attend rehearsals, etc. You drive the church van or bus, you freely take on the obligation to show up to drive. That's the kind of obligation I mean.

So this Sunday morning, I'll go to church out of obligation, because I'm the choir director. I assumed it out of my desire to serve the Lord and his church with musical talents.

In a broader sense, when you join a congregation, you also assume certain obligations, including showing up. You can see how silly it would be to join a church, never intending to show up.

 

[Tom Butler]

OK - Here's another question - for a while, we had 3 services - one on Saturday night and 2 on Sunday morning - all identical except for the worship (DH lead worship on Saturday evening, another team did Sunday morning). Do we need to be at all 3? Should we expect everyone to be there Saturday night AND Sunday morning? Should you WANT to be there to listen to the same message 3X?

This is a rhetorical question, right?

 

[TC]

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

You may think that Webdog or anyone else choosing to work over attending every single church function is loving the world, but it is not. The apostle Paul himself wrote:

1 Tim 5:8 (NKJV)
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.[/]

I think we should attend all the church functions that we are able to. However, if I have to work on a Wed. or Thurs. night in order to pay rent and put food on the table then so be it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If there is an option to work at another time, then that option should be taken. Many bosses will allow one to not work on days when services are held. Many will work you around those schedules.

My brother in law, when told he had to work on Sundays, refused and quit the job. Guess what? Because he was staunch in his belief that God wanted him in the Church whenever the services were held, God opened doors for a better paying job with just as many hours and still time for family and Church!

Try God. Prove Him and see if He will not open doors instead of making excuses why one has to miss Church services.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Does God want our love and worship out of obligation...or because we truly desire Him? Forced love is not love.

Obligation is not the same as forcing. But God, over and over again in Scripture, reminds us (and all mankind) of the fact that he alone is worthy of worship and therefore we are obligated to worship him. In fact, the whole idea of hell and punishment is based on the fact that we had an obligation to worship God and did not fulfill it.

On a human plane, there are many obligations I have towards my wife and son that I fulfill out of love. These are not contrary.

So this kind of dichotomy draws a false distinction.

 

[tinytim]

I like the word "responsibility" better than "obligation" but that is just me... and they probably mean the same thing.

It is a person's responsibility to support their local church in time, talent, treasure, and testimony....(there's a sermon there... I know I preached a series at the first of the year:smilewinkgrin: }

If a person is supporting their church overall, give em a break if they want to attend one of their child's functions on a Wed. evening... good grief, do you really beleive that a person is a better Christian if they attend everytime vs one that misses once in a while?.... That is legalistic...

Any time someone thinks they are loved by God, or closer to God by what they do, it is legalism...
None of us deserves Grace...
We are approved by God by what Christ did...nothing we do!

I see no one here advocating neglecting their church.. unless you have a very different def. of neglect....

I still say it is all about attitude.
BTW, the church is not where we attend... it is who we are.

I think it was Annsni that pointed out that fellowshipping with saints over coffee is fellowshipping with the church...

There was no building for the first 10,000 members in Jerusalem to meet... so how did they fellowship... in their homes...

No buildings until 300 yrs later...

 

[webdog]

My brother in law, when told he had to work on Sundays, refused and quit the job. Guess what? Because he was staunch in his belief that God wanted him in the Church whenever the services were held, God opened doors for a better paying job with just as many hours and still time for family and Church!

My father did the exact same thing (he's a deacon). He was prompltyly fired and the only thing he could fine was a job paying him half his wages and twice the work. His employer was working around his schedule...he could work before church began, but they needed him on Sunday's. He refused stating God's call for believers to not work on Sundays, and has used the "God wanted me to leave there anyway" crutch to lean on. It really bothers me when Christians use "God said to me" as a means to doing what they want. I don't believe it was God's will for my father to lose his job and be miserable. I would counter that your brother getting a job paying higher wages cannot be automatically assumed as reward for not working Sundays, but a blessing in spite of his convictions.

 

[Rufus_1611]

My father did the exact same thing (he's a deacon). He was prompltyly fired and the only thing he could fine was a job paying him half his wages and twice the work. His employer was working around his schedule...he could work before church began, but they needed him on Sunday's. He refused stating God's call for believers to not work on Sundays, and has used the "God wanted me to leave there anyway" crutch to lean on. It really bothers me when Christians use "God said to me" as a means to doing what they want. I don't believe it was God's will for my father to lose his job and be miserable. I would counter that your brother getting a job paying higher wages cannot be automatically assumed as reward for not working Sundays, but a blessing in spite of his convictions.

It grieves me that you would not stand behind your father's decision and praise him for dedicating one day to the Lord. God will bless us in His own ways and these blessings should not be measured by the unrighteous mammon we receive from our decisions, whether it be an increase or a decrease. I share your belief that we ought not use "God said to me" unless we can support that leading via scripture. I think your father would have strong scriptural support for believers not working on Sundays and is a practice that Christians ought not do. I would also agree that it was not God's will to lose his job and be miserable but rather for him to rejoice in the Lord in whatever afflictions he faced and to be content and praise God for the things we have, including a lower-paying job.

 

[tinytim]

I hope all of you that advocate not working on Sundays, don't listen to the radio, tv, use electricity, buy gasoline, eat out, go to any store, or many other things...

And I pray that you never have a reason to use the ER on a Sunday.
To do so would make you a hypocrite because you are forcing others to do what you don't believe should be done.

Sundays should be held as a day of worship, but QUIT BEING LEGALISTIC! God is not legalistic, He is a God of grace.
And it is a disgrace when his children are not projecting his true image to the world...

It is about GRACE!

 

[James_Newman]

Legalism in your definition means doing something to please God, as if God cannot be pleased by actions. If putting church attendance before work is legalism, and God careth not for it, why should we go to church at all?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I hope all of you that advocate not working on Sundays, don't listen to the radio, tv, use electricity, buy gasoline, eat out, go to any store, or many other things...

And I pray that you never have a reason to use the ER on a Sunday.
To do so would make you a hypocrite because you are forcing others to do what you don't believe should be done.

Sundays should be held as a day of worship, but QUIT BEING LEGALISTIC! God is not legalistic, He is a God of grace.
And it is a disgrace when his children are not projecting his true image to the world...

It is about GRACE!

Since Gods Word tells us to assemble together, and to exhort others to assemble, your accusations are both unfounded and unbiblical.

 

[webdog]

Legalism in your definition means doing something to please God, as if God cannot be pleased by actions. If putting church attendance before work is legalism, and God careth not for it, why should we go to church at all?

No, what legalism is saying it's wrong to work on Sundays when there is absolutely no scriptural evidence supporting that, contrary to what rufus stated. Tim is right. My father has no problem going out to eat on Sundays...but refuses to have the paper delivered on Sunday because it is making the paper boy "work" on Sunday. It's selective legalism.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I like the word "responsibility" better than "obligation" but that is just me... and they probably mean the same thing.

It is a person's responsibility to support their local church in time, talent, treasure, and testimony....(there's a sermon there... I know I preached a series at the first of the year:smilewinkgrin: }

If a person is supporting their church overall, give em a break if they want to attend one of their child's functions on a Wed. evening... good grief, do you really beleive that a person is a better Christian if they attend everytime vs one that misses once in a while?.... That is legalistic...

Any time someone thinks they are loved by God, or closer to God by what they do, it is legalism...
None of us deserves Grace...
We are approved by God by what Christ did...nothing we do!

I see no one here advocating neglecting their church.. unless you have a very different def. of neglect....

I still say it is all about attitude.
BTW, the church is not where we attend... it is who we are.

I think it was Annsni that pointed out that fellowshipping with saints over coffee is fellowshipping with the church...

There was no building for the first 10,000 members in Jerusalem to meet... so how did they fellowship... in their homes...

No buildings until 300 yrs later...

Any time one chooses to be entertained by the world over going to Church to worship when the doors are opened, they are indeed less closer to God. The worldly entertainment one chooses becomes a god to that person. That person has indeed committed spiritual adultery.

If your Church doors are opened for worship, your attendance should be first and foremost in your mind. How can one say one loves God when one would rather be entertained by the world than to hear God's Word?

There is nothing legalistic about it. The early Church fathers saw the need to be in Church. I believe they met day to day. Acts records that 'added to the church daily such as should be saved'.

The Church was growing daily. That means the Church was ministering daily, witnessing Christ and people were coming to know Him in their lives.

Legalism to exhort others to be in the Sanctuary whenever services are held? Not by a long shot.

 

[webdog]

It grieves me that you would not stand behind your father's decision and praise him for dedicating one day to the Lord.

Isn't every day supposed to be dedicated to the Lord? We are NOT under the obligation of the sabbath (which is Saturday, btw)

God will bless us in His own ways and these blessings should not be measured by the unrighteous mammon we receive from our decisions, whether it be an increase or a decrease.

Or do you mean in spite of our self righteousness?

I share your belief that we ought not use "God said to me" unless we can support that leading via scripture. I think your father would have strong scriptural support for believers not working on Sundays and is a practice that Christians ought not do.

If there is scriptural proof...supply it, and I don't want to see any sabbath Scriptures either, as this is not what it is about.

I would also agree that it was not God's will to lose his job and be miserable but rather for him to rejoice in the Lord in whatever afflictions he faced and to be content and praise God for the things we have, including a lower-paying job.

I would counter it was not God's will to lose his job, period. Any testimony he had at his job was blown by his actions. His employer was working with him all along...to meet his requirements, btw. He took the job knowing Sundays would be required. He was getting good benefits which were needed as my mother has a heart condition, diabetes, neouropathy and a host of other ailments. To throw all of that away, and not be able to support my mother is NOT God's will, especially when there is no command to not work on Sundays!

 

[reformedbeliever]

Isn't every day supposed to be dedicated to the Lord? We are NOT under the obligation of the sabbath (which is Saturday, btw)

Or do you mean in spite of our self righteousness?

If there is scriptural proof...supply it, and I don't want to see any sabbath Scriptures either, as this is not what it is about.

I would counter it was not God's will to lose his job, period. Any testimony he had at his job was blown by his actions. His employer was working with him all along...to meet his requirements, btw. He took the job knowing Sundays would be required. He was getting good benefits which were needed as my mother has a heart condition, diabetes, neouropathy and a host of other ailments. To throw all of that away, and not be able to support my mother is NOT God's will, especially when there is no command to not work on Sundays!

Awwww c'mon web... not God's will? If it was not God's will then he would not have lost his job. If you don't believe exactly like HBSMN then you çan't be a "good" American. :laugh:

 

[James_Newman]

No, what legalism is saying it's wrong to work on Sundays when there is absolutely no scriptural evidence supporting that, contrary to what rufus stated. Tim is right. My father has no problem going out to eat on Sundays...but refuses to have the paper delivered on Sunday because it is making the paper boy "work" on Sunday. It's selective legalism.

I was referring specifically to Tiny's comment:

Any time someone thinks they are loved by God, or closer to God by what they do, it is legalism...
None of us deserves Grace...
We are approved by God by what Christ did...nothing we do!

So my thinking that going to church brings me closer to God is legalism. I should like to know why I go to church if it is not in order to be brought closer to God...