Grieved over today's events in Charlottesville

[JonC]

The person who drove into the crowd...was s/he a white supremacist or a protester of white supremacists?

Verbal confrontation is to be expected. Violence is not to be expected. The violence must be condemned.

It doesn't matter what the person was (a white supremacist or a protester). He or she is a murderer. That's all that matters here.

 

[MennoSota]

It doesn't matter what the person was (a white supremacist or a protester). He or she is a murderer. That's all that matters here.

Terrorist as well.

 

[Reynolds]

I haven't seen any video of counter-demonstrators starting the violence. I condemn that if they did. However, like I tell my kids..."Fighting a wrong with a wrong does not make it right."

The counter demonstrators always start the violence. They fall right into the Klans plan. I have seen it first hand. I have been briefed on what the M.O. of the Klan is. I have heard their predemonstration briefings. Their goal is to legally provoke a violent response.
They are good at what they do. The speaker will identify one or two people in the crowd and begin to verbally insult them. Give it a few minutes and the fight is on. Reminds you a lot of 1980s professional wrestling.

 

[MennoSota]

The counter demonstrators always start the violence. They fall right into the Klans plan. I have seen it first hand. I have been briefed on what their M.O. is. I have heard their predemonstration briefings.

What plans? The klans numbers keep going down. If the klan has a plan it should be to portray themselves as supporting diversity while enslaving people like the progressives have done.

 

[Reynolds]

What plans? The klans numbers keep going down. If the klan has a plan it should be to portray themselves as supporting diversity while enslaving people like the progressives have done.

The plan for that rally.
The Klan was broken up in an undercover operation that was led by a work associate of mine. There is no longer a united Klan it is hundreds of small cells. The true hardcore racists have gone to the Neo Nazis. The Klan and the Neos did not associate or work together. The majority of the splinter cells are now closely allied with the Neo Nazis. Their numbers are much larger than you think and they are exponentially more dangerous than you estimate.

I am mad because they taint the image of people like me who highly value heritage.

 

[Matt Black]

And just when, exactly, do you think the KKK or BLM was adjudicated to be a "paramilitary terrorist organization." Please supply docket number, court, and decision.

Thank you.

If they haven't, the KKK darn well should be. You lecture us on Islamist extremism in our midst - and rightly so in some cases - but fail to take action against the viper in your own breast. An armed paramilitary organisation with history of murderous violence against US citizens is a terrorist organisation and should be proscribed as such. Time you work up and smelled the coffee...

 

[TCassidy]

but fail to take action against the viper in your own breast.

That is one of the nice things about living in the US. You have to actually commit a crime before you can be arrested or dragged into a criminal court.

 

[Matt Black]

Since when was incitement not a crime?

 

[TCassidy]

Since when was incitement not a crime?

Who incited to riot? What was the incitement? Do you even understand the legal definition of "incitement" in US (and especially Virginia) law?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Since feeedom of speech.

 

[TCassidy]

Since freedom of speech.

Actually that is a pretty slippery slope. Our speech is not as free as we might expect.

Free speech can put you behind bars if it's "fighting speech." You can be prosecuted and jailed for provoking someone in many jurisdictions.

Free speech can end in a jail cell if it can be called "inciting to riot."

It can end in a cell if it's called "reckless endangerment."

Free speech ends at any arbitrary line Congress draws "in the public interest." Then Congress decides what is "in the public interest."

But in this case we don't know if someone incited to riot, and if someone did we don't know who that person was. So Matt's point (as with most of Matt's points) is entirely moot.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I agree with you, but nobody has been able to find anything inciteful. Belonging to an offensive group and arming yourself are not crimes, as much as some want to make them.

 

[777]

Okay then, Cass, what do you think about this?:

Judge Grants Injunction, Jason Kessler Can Have Unite the Right Rally at Emancipation Park

I don't think this rally should have ever taken place, this was just asking for trouble. The right to assembly has limits, too, I'm on the side of the mayor and MCAwful against the ACLU here.

 

[LowOiL]

I side with the right to peacefully assemble and demonstrate. I don't care if its the Klan or the Panthers. The counter demonstrators sparked the violence. As I said, I have worked several Klan rallies. They always complied fully with the rules of their permit. The counter demonstrators always caused the problems. Smart people would have ignored them.

Agreed for the most part.

I have kinfolks in a small town in Alabama, back in 1997 (or 98) there was some nutso Klans man that decided to take his family for a picnic at a local city park in Fort Payne. He dressed in full Klans garb and sat down to eat a meal. He was suddenly surrounded by 75 black youths that were jeering him. He argued back and forth for a while and one of the black youths pulled a gun and shot him.

So for 20+ years afterward the city had an annual Klan day held at the courthouse that was held in Garrett's memory. The local papers decided it was in their best interest not to cover the yearly event and the local police blocked off the courthouse and most years locals never knew the klan had even came to that small town.

That is how you handle the clan, don't feed the trolls. You don't even acknowledge them. All that black kid did was swell a hate group ranks for a years because he did exactly what they Klan suggested blacks do (commit violent crime). There is always going to be fringe groups and wackos. It is their right to be so like it or not. But understanding what empowers them and denying them that, is a good step to lessening their ranks.

 

[saved41199]

Who feels the need to be armed all the time? That's nuts. I live in a big city that has it's fair share of crime. Yet, I'm not so paranoid or scared that I feel the need to be armed all the time, especially at church! I live in a not so great neighborhood, surrounded by not so great apartment complexes...yet, I still feel no fear whatsoever.

Put the guns down and stop living in fear.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Belonging to an offensive group and arming yourself are not crimes, as much as some want to make them.

That is a murky area. The Communist Control Act (68 Stat. 775, 50 U.S.C. 841-844) signed into law by Eisenhower outlawed the Communist Party and made it a crime to be a member. The constitutionality of the law has never been ruled on by the Supreme Court.

When I was inducted into the Army [1960] there was a long list of organizations that I had to swear and sign that I was not nor never had been a member. I do not remember if I would have been arrested and tried if I had admitted to being a member of any of those organizations. I have no idea if people being inducted into the military now have to swear that are not members of listed groups.

 

[saved41199]

Preservation of my Southern Heritage is not about race.
People have the right to protest peacefully. All accounts seem to indicate that the left turned this event violent.
I have worked security at several public Klan demonstrations. They are some evil people, but they have a right to protest. The counter demonstrators were ALWAYS the source of the problem. '

Yeah, you're part of the problem...your mind is so narrow my cat couldn't run through it. I grew up in the south. I know what I saw and experienced over the years and well...bubba white boy was the instigator and then turned it around. You aren't any better.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I love how some so badly want to turn this into a gun debate.

 

[LowOiL]

Okay then, Cass, what do you think about this?:

Judge Grants Injunction, Jason Kessler Can Have Unite the Right Rally at Emancipation Park

I don't think this rally should have ever taken place, this was just asking for trouble. The right to assembly has limits, too, I'm on the side of the mayor and MCAwful against the ACLU here.

The problem is the city decided it was ok for leftist groups to have a counter protest after first denying the Unite the Right. It was shown they gave favoritism to leftist groups over other groups. You either have the right to assemble and protest or you don't. IOWs, Do NOT give leftist special rights over other groups.

Then it opens the can of worms that if you deny all groups the right to protest, then where has freedom gone?

One of the few times I agree with the ACLU.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

That is a murky area. The Communist Control Act (68 Stat. 775, 50 U.S.C. 841-844) signed into law by Eisenhower outlawed the Communist Party and made it a crime to be a member. The constitutionality of the law has never been ruled on by the Supreme Court.

When I was inducted into the Army [1960] there was a long list of organizations that I had to swear and sign that I was not nor never had been a member. I do not remember if I would have been arrested and tried if I had admitted to being a member of any of those organizations. I have no idea if people being inducted into the military now have to swear that are not members of listed groups.

No you wouldn't be arrested. You woulda lost a security clearance.