glad4mercy
Active Member
I think if you were so 'COMPLETELY open minded to what (I) have to say' I wouldn't have received your scathing response.
I'd apologize for using Scripture (that isn't irrelevant and never is irrelevant btw) that directly applies to your inquiry but it's needless.
FTR I never assumed you were questioning God.
As far as attempting to help you understand Calvinism, and, that God uses both evil and good for his glory, I must use Scripture to do so, and that I have done in my previous post. We (Calvinists) always use Scripture to answer questions, address issues, offer insight.
Apologies also for not taking an exhaustive approach to answer you. Perhaps, if you want a detailed biblical response to God's decrees in this, on a Calvinist's perspective, you may find The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith of some help:
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc03.html
FTR when I stated not having it all figured out it, it was stated without a thought of you in it, and honestly I never thought you ever even implied such a thing. I apologize if you felt that is what I implied, as my answer may have done just that.
All we know is that God has decreed all things that come to pass, as He is Sovereign; Isaiah 46:10, therefore He has allowed evil.
One purpose for evil that I see is that in it God is glorified. Now, many tend to think that when God is glorified that it means 'get's joy over it, get's a kick out of it'. The way Scripture describes His glory is that it is a manifestation of His attributes. God is holy and good, full of mercy and love. He is glorified when He punishes evil, and a reminder of this was given to me when reading Joshua 6-7 today. In this passage we see the glory of God manifest in exercising His justice on Achan and his kin.
Now, in your second post in this thread you are asking for a Calvinist to do the following:
"The part I am seeking explanation for is the apparant contradiction (I say apparant because it only appears to be contradictory TO ME , not that it is contradictory) in your affirmation that God ordains EVERYTHING that comes to pass while similtaneously denying that He ordained acts of sin. Would you please clarify this for me?
I am not a hard headed person who wants to argue and doesnt want to listen.
To say that God ordains EVERYTHING and then say that He did not ordain sin is contradictory. If He did not ordain sin, He did not ordain everything.
So do you agree with Calvin and the Westminster Confession that God infallibly ordained WHATSOEVER comes to pass? Would this not include acts of sin?
I am not attacking Calvinism. I am trying to find the missing piece in my understanding of it. I know that God did not ordain sin, therefore I cannot believe He ordained EVERYTHING. Am I missing something? If so, what is it?"
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- What I believe you are missing is that you expect a bonafide, succinct and articulate answer to a mystery that no one fully understands. I believe you also know that no Scripture completely explains it.
Then again, define 'ordain' a word you continue to use.
We tend to use the word 'decree' meaning basically 'to order, to order by authority'. Ordain tends to come across as 'endorse' to too many persons, and seems an implication during debates and discussion. Certainly God did not endorse it in that sense, and no Calvinist I know of believes that.
And by the way, lest we forget, it was man that chose evil, and it is mankind suffering the consequences, and God is just in allowing that.
My response was not meant to be scathing, and of course you should use scripture. I am sola scriptura too. My point was that the Job passage did not apply to me, ecause I was not doing the thing that the passage was addressing. Perhaps I misunderstood your point, and if so, I apologize
Good post, BTW. Well put