Has the Law of Moses Been Abolished?

[Frank Leyland]

I reject Sproul and Co as 'Authorities' and go to Y'shua's chosen Apostle, Paul of Tarsus.

 

[Jason1]

Again we see you adding and taking away from that which God has spoken:

Could you show me "Torah" in this...


John 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Perhaps you should get together with some Jehovah Witnesses, Jason. Because you might be able to convince some of the that "In the beginning was a Torah, and a Torah was with God, and a Torah was God."


They are more likely to fall in with you in your habit of making any word deserving of worship.


God bless.

I don't understand your lack of understanding in this matter.

Torah = YHVH's teachings and instructions (contained in first 5 books)
Word = What came out of YHVH's mouth (contained in first 5 books primarily, but also prophecy through the prophets)

Torah and the word are synonymous. There is not adding to, just you trying to take scriptural definitions away.

Psa_119:16 I delight myself in Your laws; I do not forget Your word.

 

[Darrell C]

Yeah, concerning Sproul, that was my mistake.

As was poor quoting procedure. I would not have known you had responded unless I had seen it as I have.

Lucky you.

So, concerning Isaac, are you one of his descendants and a member of YHVH's true Israel as I am?

Absolutely not.

I am a son of God, not a son of Abraham.

I am a Gentile (Scotch-Irish! lol) with no claim to heritage to Isaac, apart from a our familial beginnings in Adam and Noah.

As far as being of the "Israel of God," again, no. Israel is a distinct Nation created by God as an Old Testament shadow of the People of God that will ultimately people the Eternal State.

I am a member of the Church, the Body of Christ, a son of God according to His Sovereign power to save.

THIS is the point - I have NO interest in King James nor any of that stuff.

And?

Lot of good "stuff" in the KJV.

I have the Hebrew to English Old Testament and the Greek to English New Testament.

And?

If they have not helped you ti understand that we become sons of God, not sons of Abraham, when we are saved, perhaps you might consider...

...a new King James?




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I reject Sproul and Co as 'Authorities' and go to Y'shua's chosen Apostle, Paul of Tarsus.

That's funny, because I reject Sproul as an authority as well, but that doesn't make this...

The holiness of God is traumatic to unholy people...R.C. Sproul

...a statement of truth.

Is there a point to any of this, or did you just get up on the wrong side of the desk this morning?


God bless.

 

[Frank Leyland]

I don't understand your lack of understanding in this matter.

Torah = YHVH's teachings and instructions (contained in first 5 books)
Word = What came out of YHVH's mouth (contained in first 5 books primarily, but also prophecy through the prophets)

Torah and the word are synonymous. There is not adding to, just you trying to take scriptural definitions away.

Psa_119:16 I delight myself in Your laws; I do not forget Your word.

If it is me (Frank) to whom you are talking, then it is not The Scripture I don't understand - it is you.

 

[Jason1]

If it is me (Frank) to whom you are talking, then it is not The Scripture I don't understand - it is you.

I'm quoted darrel the bird (seed/word stealer)

 

[Frank Leyland]

Ha! I was thinking exactly the same thing about you!

 

[Darrell C]

I don't understand your lack of understanding in this matter.

It is not possible for those who disobey the Word of God who are lazy and infantile in their understanding...to understand anything.

Quit being so lazy, Jason. Do your homework. Stop parroting the teachings of your cult and actually pay attention to the Word of God.

Torah = YHVH's teachings and instructions (contained in first 5 books)

And the syllogistic conclusions you come to, such as "The Torah=the WORD (Christ)" show that you have no understanding of why the Torah was given to begin with.

Scripture is a progressive revelation of God and His Redemptive Plan to mankind. The revelation given to men in the Torah in no way stands complete in regards to Revelation, and the Covenant itself cannot be divorced from the very purpose of that revelation and Covenant.

It was not meant to be the endgame for believers, but a shadow, a parable, until the more perfect Word was given through Christ and the Apostles.

Secondly, when Christ expounds upon Himself, He does not simply expound upon the Pentateuch, but in fact expounds upon Himself from the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms.

Christ is the central figure of all revelation, whereas your cult elevates the revelation itself.

You might as well encase a scroll in a glass covered box, kneel down, and pray to it. That is precisely what you are doing. So before you start looking at the mote in the Catholic's eye, perhaps you could give attention to the beam which is your own.

You are a Christ rejecting idolater, my friend.

Word = What came out of YHVH's mouth (contained in first 5 books primarily, but also prophecy through the prophets)

Jason, you understand that the Son of God is the Creator, right?

You understand that the WORD, the Son of GOd, spoke this creation into existence, right?

You understand there is a difference between what is spoken and the Speaker, right?

There are many here who will be glad to help you with these basic concepts. Me, I have a low tolerance for people so hostile towards the Word of God, and particularly when they add and take away to support their religions. So not sure how much longer I will invest time in you.

Torah and the word are synonymous. There is not adding to, just you trying to take scriptural definitions away.

Again, your deflection does not change the fact that you are in error to equate the WORD of GOd with the Torah.

Yes, the Torah is the Word of God, no-one denies that. It's when you make the Torah God that you fall into the idolatrous doctrine of cults.

Psa_119:16 I delight myself in Your laws; I do not forget Your word.

Big difference between God and God's Word. God is the Savior, the Word is the revelation of that salvation, progressively given over several millennia.

Isaiah 43:11
King James Version (KJV)

11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.


Isaiah 44:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.


Revelation 1:17-18
King James Version (KJV)

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Stop worshiping the handwriting of ordinances which still remain against you, my friend, and worship God Himself.


God bless.

 

[JonShaff]

Jesus would not be the messiah if he did away with the law. He would be going against His Father's Word and thus be a sinner.

Jesus gave no new laws, but upheld the torah. He is, in fact, the torah made flesh and told us to obey his words.

How is Jesus our High Priest when He is from the Tribe of JUDAH if we are still under the Law???????? So you are saying Jesus is a sinner and breaking the Law of Moses?

 

[spirit1st]

Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph_6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Col_1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
1Th_1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1Th_5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.2Ti_1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Phm_1:5 Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;
Jas_2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
It takes the HOLY GHOST too open our eyes to the TRUTH! And YES JESUS CHRIST came To change the law and the priesthood ! The bible says so ! Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. The laws of Heaven were always Faith and LOVE! We see the scripture says ! He changed the laws and priesthood for us ! Under the new Priesthood , We see HE now judges us who are Born Again under the law of Liberty ! Meaning All go to Heaven [New Jerusalem ] Meaning not of HIS children Can sin or go to Hell !
Jas_1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas_2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. And the world still go to Hell until the judgment day ! Listen ? I have been dead both ways ! I think So I could reveal the Truth to others ! He uses someone to reveal the TRUTH ! Very sure I am no more than any ! But I was willing to hear HIm and reveal the TRUTH to others .I LOVE the TRUTH and expect nor want anything for revealing it ! It really does not matter how we live in the flesh ! It our Spirit that counts the most ! We can suffer in the flesh for sin ! But cannot lose salvation once we are born into HIS family and household ! But can lose rewards which we will all want one day !
Rom_5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
2Co_1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand. Listen to me ? If Faith is not one of the laws ? Then why must we STAND by it ! Listen to me ? GOD created all things by FAITH ! Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Rom_11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:2Co_5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal_5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph_3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. I pray ABBA, Father GOD reveal TO ALL WHO READ THIS THE TRUTH ! HELP THEM TO WEALK IN THE truth AND HELP MANY INTO THE KINGDOM IN THE mighty name of our lord Jesus Christ ! You will have Great eternal rewards if you hear and obey the LORD JESUS CHRIST ! This is OUR LORDS gospel and the only way into Salvation !
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. It very simple But few are ever Born -Again ! I AM

 

[Charles Blair]

The Law of Moses has not been abolished, because heaven and earth has not yet passed away, hence "unit heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law..." and "whoever sets aside the least of the commands, will be called least...". Even Paul says, "we do not nullify the Law by this faith, but we uphold the Law". Lets discuss.

Not abolished - fulfilled.

 

[spirit1st]

2Co_3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
WHY is it called DEATH ? Because it killed All 100% even our LORD JESUS! No one but our LORD could live it 100% ! That why we needed a savior ! Thank YOU LORD JESUS ! I hope many see ! The 10 commandments KILLED ALL !

 

[Calv1]

Hey brother, good try, and since I'm too lazy to answer you right now, actually too upset about something else, let me just say everyone from Arminian Commentators, Adam Clarke, Cambridge University Commentary, to Reformed John Gill, Barnes, etc, ALL agree with my position, I think you are forcing something you want into the passage that is contrary to the rest of scripture.

In Romans do you see Pauls illustration of Marraige, and how when the law DIED, we were not bound by it, people get confused because surely we are bound by love, truth, etc., his point is we are NO LONGER JUDGED BY IT. It also shows a false understanding of what Christ accomplished, He didn't merely take our sins on Himself and get us back to Adam, that is sinless, but He made us RIGHTEOUS through living a perfect life, "Fulfilling all righteouness", I mean God could have let Herod kill Him, Hey He died for us, the second part, Imputed Righteousness has fallen out of teaching in liberal circles, maybe not accusing, but perhaps that's why you miss it. If Christ's perfect life is imputed to us, that is FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GO BACK AND TRY TO FILL THE LAW YOURSELF?

As I stand, Christ took all of my sins on Himself, all my sins are taken away, never to be judged again, second when I was Regenerated God put His Spirit in me, Christs "alien", or "Foreign" righteousness, this is His literal fulfillment of the law, SO TO GO BACK TO THE LAW IS TO UNDO THE WORK OF CHRIST IN YOUR LIFE.

Then the accusations soon follow, "But then you can go sin", true, we do everyday, when we know God we know our sins so much better, but our DESIRES HAVE CHANGED, we despise sin.

So sorry my friend, you are in grave error, if you try to keep the law you will have to keep every bit of it, all of your life, and if you miss one point you miss it all, why would you even try when God can impute Christ to you? The only One who HAS done it?

Calv,

There is a huge problem with church understanding of galations. Its not that they were wanting to return to the torah that was the issue, it was that they were returning to judaism and their oral law and traditions. This is the main subject both Yeshua and Paul come against over and over (NEVER THE TORAH). When you see "works of the law" it refers to oral law. Here is a verse that point out the problem:

Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters,1 to which you wish to be enslaved again? Footnote: 1See v.3, Col. 2:8 & 20.​

Which cross links to:

Col 2:8 See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world,1 and not according to Messiah.
Col 2:20 If, then, you died with Messiah from the elementary matters1 of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations: Footnote: 1See v. 8, and Gal. 4:3 & 9.
​

If you truly believe in Yeshua and His words, you will do what He says:

Luk_6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say?1 Footnote: 1see vv. 47-49, Mt. 7:24-28, Lk. 8:21, John 3:36, Jas. 2:17-24.
​

Saying that keeping the torah for salvation is true. It is the narrow path to the Father after Yeshua restores you back to covenant. Saying you don't keep it means you are staying in sin, are not repentant, and deserve death.

 

[utilyan]

Well here is the unavoidable bottom line.

According to revelations, THERE IS NO SINNING IN HEAVEN.

And get this. Only the sinless can ENTER heaven.


So I don't care what timeline whether its 1 second or 1 hundred years, BEFORE you enter heaven, TO ENTER IT, you must be completely SINLESS.

That is EVERY COMMANDMENT is followed perfectly. Never mind the 10 commandments, Your gonna be following the commandments # 11- 100 too.

Commandments you don't even know about. Like never tell a man he has no home or has no father who loves him.

 

[Jason1]

How is Jesus our High Priest when He is from the Tribe of JUDAH if we are still under the Law???????? So you are saying Jesus is a sinner and breaking the Law of Moses?

Heb_5:10 having been designated by Elohim a High Priest “according to the order of Malkitseḏeq,”

Heb 7:14 For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood,
Heb 7:15 and this is clearer still, if another priest arises in the likeness of Malkitseḏeq,​

He is a high priest in the heavenlies after a different order (which is in the torah). If he were on earth he would not be a priest because he is not a Levite.

Heb 8:4 For if indeed He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the Torah,​

 

[JonShaff]

Heb_5:10 having been designated by Elohim a High Priest “according to the order of Malkitseḏeq,”

Heb 7:14 For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood,
Heb 7:15 and this is clearer still, if another priest arises in the likeness of Malkitseḏeq,​

He is a high priest in the heavenlies after a different order (which is in the torah). If he were on earth he would not be a priest because he is not a Levite.

Heb 8:4 For if indeed He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the Torah,​

Which would mean the Law is not in effect. Thanks!

 

[Jason1]

Which would mean the Law is not in effect. Thanks!

Wow, you clearly didn't try to understand.

I guess you'll go around murdering, stealing, lying, raping, etc? No law = no sin

 

[JonShaff]

Wow, you clearly didn't try to understand.

I guess you'll go around murdering, stealing, lying, raping, etc? No law = no sin

stealing, lying, raping is not LOVING is it, Jason?

1 TImothy
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person,

 

[HankD]

Wow, you clearly didn't try to understand.

I guess you'll go around murdering, stealing, lying, raping, etc? No law = no sin

Not if you are led of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

stealing, lying, raping is not LOVING is it, Jason?

1 TImothy
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person,

Who gets to define what love is and is not? If you ask a muslim, they could have very different answers. Where is the standard at?