Have Believers Already Been Adopted as Children of God?

[Scripture More Accurately]

I don't think that you have really thought about what you are saying here.
So the question is: Are we Children of God? We KNOW that we were not BORN as such (Ephesians 2:1-4), so if we are Children of God, then we must have been adopted at some point.

Of course, we are children of God. We were not physically born as such when we came out from the womb, but all who have repented and believed have been born again and are now children of God through the new birth.

You are confusing the way that the concept of "adoption" is used in our time with what adoption signifies biblically.

 

[atpollard]

You are confusing the way that the concept of "adoption" is used in our time with what adoption signifies biblically.

Please point me to a "biblical adoption".

When did God accept the Moabitess Ruth as one of His Chosen People?
When did the family of Rahab become part of the Nation?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Please point me to a "biblical adoption".

When did God accept the Moabitess Ruth as one of His Chosen People?
When did the family of Rahab become part of the Nation?

Romans 8:23 directly shows what adoption signifies biblically.

Concerning Ruth and Rahab, the Scripture never calls what God did for them "adoption."

 

[AustinC]

Romans 8:23 directly shows what adoption signifies biblically.

Concerning Ruth and Rahab, the Scripture never calls what God did for them "adoption."

You always ignore Romans 8:14-15.

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You always ignore Romans 8:14-15.

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

This is a strange claim. Compare closely what Rom. 8:14-15 says with what Rom. 8:23 says and look closely at the verb tense and the direct object in Rom. 8:15:

Rom. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

In English grammar, "have received" signifies a perfect tense verb showing something that has already been received. The direct object of the verb is "Spirit," not "adoption."

15 οὐ γὰρ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα δουλείας πάλιν εἰς φόβον, ἀλλὰ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα υἱοθεσίας ἐν ᾧ κράζομεν· Αββα ὁ πατήρ·

In the Greek, the verb is an aorist and has "Spirit" as its direct object. "Adoption" (υἱοθεσίας) is not the direct object here.


By contrast, notice what Rom. 8:23 says:

Rom. 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

23 οὐ μόνον δέ, ἀλλὰ καὶ αὐτοὶ τὴν ἀπαρχὴν τοῦ πνεύματος ἔχοντες ἡμεῖς καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐν ἑαυτοῖς στενάζομεν, υἱοθεσίαν ἀπεκδεχόμενοι τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν τοῦ σώματος ἡμῶν.

In Greek, the verb here is "groan," which is our present activity. "Waiting for" is a present participle and signifies that we have not yet received something. The direct object of the participle is "adoption."

A careful comparison of Rom. 8:14-15 with 8:23 shows that we have received the Spirit (of adoption), but we have not yet received the adoption itself.

 

[atpollard]

This is a strange claim. Compare closely what Rom. 8:14-15 says with what Rom. 8:23 says and look closely at the verb tense and the direct object in Rom. 8:15:

Rom. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

In English grammar, "have received" signifies a perfect tense verb showing something that has already been received. The direct object of the verb is "Spirit," not "adoption."

15 οὐ γὰρ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα δουλείας πάλιν εἰς φόβον, ἀλλὰ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα υἱοθεσίας ἐν ᾧ κράζομεν· Αββα ὁ πατήρ·

In the Greek, the verb is an aorist and has "Spirit" as its direct object. "Adoption" (υἱοθεσίας) is not the direct object here.


By contrast, notice what Rom. 8:23 says:

Rom. 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

23 οὐ μόνον δέ, ἀλλὰ καὶ αὐτοὶ τὴν ἀπαρχὴν τοῦ πνεύματος ἔχοντες ἡμεῖς καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐν ἑαυτοῖς στενάζομεν, υἱοθεσίαν ἀπεκδεχόμενοι τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν τοῦ σώματος ἡμῶν.

In Greek, the verb here is "groan," which is our present activity. "Waiting for" is a present participle and signifies that we have not yet received something. The direct object of the participle is "adoption."

A careful comparison of Rom. 8:14-15 with 8:23 shows that we have received the Spirit (of adoption), but we have not yet received the adoption itself.

You split a semantic hair that makes me very uncomfortable.

I agree that we have not yet been glorified and, quite frankly, I wish this whole life thing were already over. A decade of helplessly watching my wife suffer pain as her spine crumbles has been enough "fun" to last eternity.

However to use that to claim that we have not been adopted by God yet, seems like folly that spits in the face of both our already being CHILDREN OF GOD and our already being indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT. You make a distinction without a difference to claim a difference that no one disagrees with without your distinction.

 

[AustinC]

This is a strange claim. Compare closely what Rom. 8:14-15 says with what Rom. 8:23 says and look closely at the verb tense and the direct object in Rom. 8:15:

Rom. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

In English grammar, "have received" signifies a perfect tense verb showing something that has already been received. The direct object of the verb is "Spirit," not "adoption."

15 οὐ γὰρ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα δουλείας πάλιν εἰς φόβον, ἀλλὰ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα υἱοθεσίας ἐν ᾧ κράζομεν· Αββα ὁ πατήρ·

In the Greek, the verb is an aorist and has "Spirit" as its direct object. "Adoption" (υἱοθεσίας) is not the direct object here.


By contrast, notice what Rom. 8:23 says:

Rom. 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

23 οὐ μόνον δέ, ἀλλὰ καὶ αὐτοὶ τὴν ἀπαρχὴν τοῦ πνεύματος ἔχοντες ἡμεῖς καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐν ἑαυτοῖς στενάζομεν, υἱοθεσίαν ἀπεκδεχόμενοι τὴν ἀπολύτρωσιν τοῦ σώματος ἡμῶν.

In Greek, the verb here is "groan," which is our present activity. "Waiting for" is a present participle and signifies that we have not yet received something. The direct object of the participle is "adoption."

A careful comparison of Rom. 8:14-15 with 8:23 shows that we have received the Spirit (of adoption), but we have not yet received the adoption itself.

So you see that the adoption has already taken place, but the redemption of our physical body from corruption to incorruption has not taken place.
The adoption has been secured. Our arrival at home is in the future.
It's all there. Now, why do you ignore the whole and twist a verse to force it to mean what it does not mean?

 

[atpollard]

Romans 8:23 directly shows what adoption signifies biblically.

Concerning Ruth and Rahab, the Scripture never calls what God did for them "adoption."

You are talking in circles and saying nothing.

I don't understand because I am thinking of the English word adoption instead of the Biblical word adoption, so I ask for an example of a Biblical adoption and you point me to a verse that has nothing to do with adoption at all in any human sense of the word. Who adopts a child and presents them with a body?

How are we already CHILDREN OF GOD but not yet ADOPTED into the family of God? That is nonsensical.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are talking in circles and saying nothing.

I don't understand because I am thinking of the English word adoption instead of the Biblical word adoption, so I ask for an example of a Biblical adoption and you point me to a verse that has nothing to do with adoption at all in any human sense of the word. Who adopts a child and presents them with a body?

How are we already CHILDREN OF GOD but not yet ADOPTED into the family of God? That is nonsensical.

Jesus said that he was going back to his God and Our God, so were they not already adopted by the father then?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You split a semantic hair that makes me very uncomfortable.

I agree that we have not yet been glorified and, quite frankly, I wish this whole life thing were already over. A decade of helplessly watching my wife suffer pain as her spine crumbles has been enough "fun" to last eternity.

However to use that to claim that we have not been adopted by God yet, seems like folly that spits in the face of both our already being CHILDREN OF GOD and our already being indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT. You make a distinction without a difference to claim a difference that no one disagrees with without your distinction.

I am not splitting any semantic hairs. I am handling the text properly with precision, just as God demands (2 Tim. 2:15).

The bottom line is that you want to hold a view that the Bible does not support. You have that option.

Romans 8:23 says that we are "waiting for the adoption." When a person is waiting for something, that thing has not yet happened.

According to what the Scripture says, we have not yet been adopted. We have received the Spirit of adoption, but we have not been adopted.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

So you see that the adoption has already taken place, but the redemption of our physical body from corruption to incorruption has not taken place.
The adoption has been secured. Our arrival at home is in the future.
It's all there. Now, why do you ignore the whole and twist a verse to force it to mean what it does not mean?

I am not twisting anything. You do not want to accept what the text says.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Jesus said that he was going back to his God and Our God, so were they not already adopted by the father then?

No, according to Romans 8:23 we have not yet been adopted. There really is nothing left to discuss. No matter how many times you claim otherwise, Scripture does not say that we have yet received the adoption.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, according to Romans 8:23 we have not yet been adopted. There really is nothing left to discuss. No matter how many times you claim otherwise, Scripture does not say that we have yet received the adoption.

We have already received the Spirit of adoption!

 

[AustinC]

I am not twisting anything. You do not want to accept what the text says.

The text is clear. You are looking for a tree that can change the forest.

 

[AustinC]

No, according to Romans 8:23 we have not yet been adopted. There really is nothing left to discuss. No matter how many times you claim otherwise, Scripture does not say that we have yet received the adoption.

According to Romans 8:14-15 our adoption is already secured. There is nothing to discuss. You avoid the whole to arrive at a false assertion. You may stop talking now.

 

[percho]

Of course, we are children of God. We were not physically born as such when we came out from the womb, but all who have repented and believed have been born again and are now children of God through the new birth.

You are confusing the way that the concept of "adoption" is used in our time with what adoption signifies biblically.

Just as you were the child of your parents before you were brought forth out of the womb.

In the old days that is when one found out if they had a son or a daughter. But today we are almost as smart as God. And I am sure some are looking forward to determining which they generate via DNA manipulation or something.
They want to be GOD!

 

[percho]

According to Romans 8:14-15 our adoption is already secured. There is nothing to discuss. You avoid the whole to arrive at a false assertion. You may stop talking now.

But until then you will continue to groan within yourself. Just as atpollard in post 86 was speaking of groaning over his wife. We all groan within our selves. We are yearning for these birth pains within us awaiting the adoption to go away.

Consider what Paul says concerning that using the word, hope, in verses 24-25
for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for? and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect.

As I get older 78 now, that groaning gets stronger and stronger.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

According to Romans 8:14-15 our adoption is already secured. There is nothing to discuss. You avoid the whole to arrive at a false assertion. You may stop talking now.

Anyone who refuses what God explicitly says later in the same passage to cling to a distortion of a previous statement in the same passage is one who insinuates that God contradicts Himself.

Either we are "waiting for the adoption" or we are not. I am going to hold to what God says regardless of anything you want to say. We are "waiting for the adoption." End of discussion.

You will answer to God for denying His Word.

 

[Yeshua1]

Anyone who refuses what God explicitly says later in the same passage to cling to a distortion of a previous statement in the same passage is one who insinuates that God contradicts Himself.

Either we are "waiting for the adoption" or we are not. I am going to hold to what God says regardless of anything you want to say. We are "waiting for the adoption." End of discussion.

You will answer to God for denying His Word.

IF we have not yet been adopted by the Father, would have no rights to call Him our father, nor to be joint heirs with Christ!

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

IF we have not yet been adopted by the Father, would have no rights to call Him our father, nor to be joint heirs with Christ!

Where does the Bible teach that this is true?