Have you heard the voice of God? Or, if He talks, what ways do you hear Him?

[Rolfe]

TCassidy's link:

RD's response:

Sour grapes syndrome .... some do not hear from God as others do, thus, they act out with a jealous spirit. You don't have to believe God speaks to us, I get it; but quit being a party pooper, Tom! Roflmao

Question. What exactly, in his post, do do disagree with?

At the surface it seems like you are either making a personal dig or trying to add "dumb-box" ratings to your collection.

 

[Revmitchell]

The idea that when God speaks to us is needless is absurd. God does not waste our or His time. His speaking to us may give us clarification on something we have struggled to understand or are just missing. We have the word of God but we do not understand it perfectly. It is the role of the HG to illuminate scripture to us. If people would spend more time serving others and God sacrificially out in the world rather than just some task on Sunday morning they would know this and it should not have to be explained.

When one spends more time "studying" scripture than they do living it; their world view, even as a Christian, is myopic at best.

 

[agedman]

Question. What exactly, in his post, do do disagree with?

There are some that consider all communication from God is through the Scripture, only. That is not the statements of either Scripture or of the definition of Sola Scripture.

I don't know of anyone on the thread that has argued that they hear anything of God that is contrary to or exalted above Scriptures unless it is from the enemy, and that is what discernment of Spirits is about. Something greatly lacking in the modern church and why folks chase after doubtful people.

The picture posted could be read as if God has nothing more to say, no more direction to give, and in essence the work of the Holy Spirit is shackled to 66 books that humankind determined made up the "cannon."

It would be good for someone to show in Scriptures how God sits in heaven, silent. Perhaps the Holy Spirit no longer speaks because we have 66 books. But such is not what is given on the thread.

Rather, on this thread there are abundant posts proclaiming the sufficiency of Scriptures for salvation and that is true. There are also abundant posts proclaiming the exaltation of Scriptures as the final authority for faith and practice and that is true. There are also abundant posts giving testimony and personal experience as to how the Holy Spirit may speak to a believer even centuries after the "cannon" was closed, and those cannot to be discredited for such expressions cannot be held up to credible examination, but tried by the one who has experienced such communication as to whether it be of God or the enemy.

The point of contention then is that the picture posted gives a false impression that God is silent.

He is not.

As creator, He spoke. As Savior, He spoke. As He was about to leave, He spoke of another that would teach.

 

[Rolfe]

The picture posted could be read as if God has nothing more to say, no more direction to give, and in essence the work of the Holy Spirit is shackled to 66 books that humankind determined made up the "cannon."

It can also be read as if one is essentially adding to Scripture based on a feeling.

Cheers.

Ed. to add- I do not discount the role of the Holy Ghost to guide us in our understanding of Scripture or His work of aiding us in our Christian walk. The dangerous bit, I think, is an over-reliance on feelings. People are easily fooled by them without solid Scripture as a guide.

 

[agedman]

It can also be read as if one is essentially adding to Scripture based on a feeling.

Cheers.

Ed. to add- I do not discount the role of the Holy Ghost to guide us in our understanding of Scripture or His work of aiding us in our Christian walk. The dangerous bit, I think, is an over-reliance on feelings. People are easily fooled by them without solid Scripture as a guide.

I totally agree. The enemy is so very deceitful, and often in this modern time will use feelings to distract from the truth!

Such rely not only on feeling, but upon circumstance. Like those perhaps who think that because the word "bowels" are found in Scriptures, they must (as the kings of the past) consult their droppings or become closer to God merely by being constipated.

Or, run to some media source for inspiration (music, poetry, video...) and allow the dulling of the intellect by either repetition or over stimulation to place them into a state of euphoria, assuming that in such a state is communication with God is found. Did not Nostradamus use a bowl of water and candle?

Or, travel to a certain place so that the serenity of the place may be superimposed upon the person rather than understanding that peace is not found in a place, but is given as an attribute to those who experientially rely upon the truth of Scriptures manifested in daily living.

 

[ElenaP]

I really find it difficult to comprehend how God only speaks to us through the Bible. If it were not for the Catholic Church or the printing press, none of us would even have a Bible. For hundreds of years common folk had no access to scriptures, and could only hear scripture if they lived in an area with access to a mass. So all throughout history, none of these people heard from God?

 

[agedman]

I really find it difficult to comprehend how God only speaks to us through the Bible. If it were not for the Catholic Church or the printing press, none of us would even have a Bible. For hundreds of years common folk had no access to scriptures, and could only hear scripture if they lived in an area with access to a mass. So all throughout history, none of these people heard from God?

The single drive of nearly every Bible translation is that the "common" person could read the truth for them self. For example: the KJV helped standardize spelling, punctuation, and grammar in the English speaking world. Imo, the Luthern Bible did the same for those who spoke German.

What I see as happening in this generation, is that media has become so dominant that critical reading skills are falling by the wayside, and this prepares the way for all manner of evil persuasion.

 

[Iconoclast]

ElenaP

I really find it difficult to comprehend how God only speaks to us through the Bible.

it is not difficult at all...that is why He had men write it for us

If it were not for the Catholic Church or the printing press, none of us would even have a Bible.

God works through means...God gave us the bible,God had man invent the printing press.

For hundreds of years common folk had no access to scriptures, and could only hear scripture if they lived in an area with access to a mass

.

This is all by God's design

So all throughout history, none of these people heard from God?

That is correct.

 

[Iconoclast]

The idea that when God speaks to us is needless is absurd. God does not waste our or His time. His speaking to us may give us clarification on something we have struggled to understand or are just missing. We have the word of God but we do not understand it perfectly. It is the role of the HG to illuminate scripture to us. If people would spend more time serving others and God sacrificially out in the world rather than just some task on Sunday morning they would know this and it should not have to be explained.

When one spends more time "studying" scripture than they do living it; their world view, even as a Christian, is myopic at best.

Just as I thought. Thanks for making it clear to everyone

You have noticed how each one who goes outside of scripture alone seeks to ignore or denigrate scripture.....they give lip service to it but they offer very little in a meaningful way.

 

[blessedwife318]

You have noticed how each one who goes outside of scripture alone seeks to ignore or denigrate scripture.....they give lip service to it but they offer very little in a meaningful way.

Yes I have noticed that. Considering how I got more support from people at my secular work place for going to Bible School then I did from the people at the church I was going to at the time. It has never ceased to amaze me the hostility that Christians have toward actual Bible Study. Reminds me of a clip that I have seen from Voddie Baucham about how the church cannot tolerate any thing above mediocrity. People can be saved for 30, 40 years and not feel like they can teach others. That would never be tolerated on a job.

 

[Iconoclast]

Rather than study scripture an appeal is made to unbiblical charisma articles and vague subjective imaginations.....this is not historic baptist teaching...it is not historic biblical teaching.

 

[TCassidy]

If it were not for the Catholic Church or the printing press, none of us would even have a Bible.

WOW! Who in the world told you that lie? The bible existed long before the Catholic Church, and even longer before Gutenberg invented the printing press.

The bible was completed by 100 AD and the Catholic Church had its roots in Emperor Constantine's unholy marriage of church and state in 325 AD, 250 years later. And the Catholic Church did not evolve into its present form until Leo I in 460 AD.

The bible existed in virtually its present form as early as 110 AD and we have full copies, including both the Old and New Testaments exactly as they are today, dating to 325-350 AD that are still in existence today.

Good grief, Elena, read a book or something!

 

[HAMel]

TCassidy..., will you venture a guess at how many "peasants" had a copy of the Old & New Testaments back in 100 AD? I suppose this might by why the Gideons didn't come on the scene till much later? After the printing press that is.

...honestly, I just don't see the need to slam anyone and everyone. Sure, there are some that might deserve it but what's wrong with instructing? Teaching? Showing? Correcting? ...forums are often a pain in the south end of a north bound mule.

 

[Iconoclast]

TCassidy..., will you venture a guess at how many "peasants" had a copy of the Old & New Testaments back in 100 AD? I suppose this might by why the Gideons didn't come on the scene till much later? After the printing press that is.

...honestly, I just don't see the need to slam anyone and everyone. Sure, there are some that might deserve it but what's wrong with instructing? Teaching? Showing? Correcting? ...forums are often a pain in the south end of a north bound mule.

They had the OT. God makes sure that that those He intends to save get the word. He never intended to save everyone.
Not everyone is given the SPIRIT.

 

[agedman]

They had the OT. God makes sure that that those He intends to save get the word. He never intended to save everyone.
Not everyone is given the SPIRIT.

Awww,

Icon. You have to remember that not everyone holds to the Doctrines of Grace.

More to the point, Paul does clearly endorse "prophecy" as a gift given to the local assembly, and it was to be used not in the sense of stating the future (though that is what prophets do do) but of being able to declare the Word of God until the cannon was complete which took place AFTER the Apostles had passed.

I still have a Gideon NT that was given out at school.

 

[Iconoclast]

Awww,

Icon. You have to remember that not everyone holds to the Doctrines of Grace.

More to the point, Paul does clearly endorse "prophecy" as a gift given to the local assembly, and it was to be used not in the sense of stating the future (though that is what prophets do do) but of being able to declare the Word of God until the cannon was complete which took place AFTER the Apostles had passed.

I still have a Gideon NT that was given out at school.

Hello AGM
I am aware that not everyone holds these teachings....yet, however this is not limited to that group of believers . It is for all Christians who believe the scriptural teaching and not drift off into emotional, philisophical, or Pollyanna notions of what is actually going on with the peoples of the world scattered since the post flood period.

Gifts were given to the church, yes. Some were temporary such as Apostles and prophets, some abiding, pastors and teachers.

Some who claim such gifts are deluded persons in our day. There are No Apostles today, there are no prophets today.

Some even who claim to be a teacher, or preacher are also not really called of God.
They can call themselves preacher, or REV. or any such titles...but in reality they are mistaken and in reality no more than actors on a stage. An actor plays a role for a time, then plays a different role and so on.
These persons even if sincere are mistaken if God has not called them like many in Jeremiahs day;
14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

15 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.

17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

20 The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

23 Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off?

24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.

25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.

26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.

29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.

 

[TCassidy]

the cannon was complete which took place AFTER the Apostles had passed.

How exactly was the canon completed after the passing of the last of the Apostles when it was the Apostles, and those closely associated with them, whom God used to inscripturate His word?

 

[agedman]

How exactly was the canon completed after the passing of the last of the Apostles when it was the Apostles, and those closely associated with them, whom God used to inscripturate His word?

T.

You know as well as I do, that the canon of Scriptures was not put together as a completed grouping until about or in the 400's, and that grouping included a number of other texts that would be gradually laid aside. Such books would include: Enoch, the Maccabees, Psalms 152-5...

Even in the 1600's there was a conference held to discuss what books were to be included and excluded. The conference fiddled with the OT, but not the NT.

The only one who had what that sort considers the word of god delivered to them in a complete book is that heretic Joseph Smith.

Even to this day, there are groups (such as the eastern orthodox) who do not have the same grouping of 66 books.

None of that is a disparage against any western Bible, even those that contain the apocrypha, but all this you already know.

 

[TCassidy]

You know as well as I do, that the canon of Scriptures was not put together as a completed grouping until about or in the 400's, and that grouping included a number of other texts that would be gradually laid aside.

So you accept the Church of Rome's version of the giving of the canon and not the biblical version (2nd Peter 3:15-16 and 1 Timothy 5:18)? Do you also recognize the Authoritative Magisterium as the only authority for understanding the bible? What other elements of the faith do you cede to Rome?

 

[annsni]

T.

You know as well as I do, that the canon of Scriptures was not put together as a completed grouping until about or in the 400's,

Actually, this is not true. It was 363 AD when the Council of Laodicea decided on that the Old Testament and 27 New Testament books were the only ones to be read in the church and the Council of Hippo in 393 adn the Council of Carthage in 397 agreed that the 27 books of the NT were authoritative and most of the books were mentioned as Scripture even hundreds of years earlier.