No its not. He is speaking about a sense of God's presence which is subjective but even that even at that he says not usually apart from the Word of God
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Have you heard the voice of God? Or, if He talks, what ways do you hear Him?
- Thread starter righteousdude2
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Have you had a chance to read the sermon that was being quoted?
Not yet...but I will....lol Spurgeon was a closed canon person. He used Keach's Catechism . He is not advocating new revelation. Some who are light on doctrine.....hold on to subjective feelings that they can ascribe meaning to.
Like a Catholic who is superstitious using a rosary bead or scapula. ...they think it helps them.
Or the deluded person making rhyming gibberish noises saying it is an unknown tongue...lol
You gave a response. You did not answer my question. You avoided it with responses that do not answer my question. Icon is on my ignore list. I do not see his posts. However, let's look back at what I actually said in post # 136:
So what did I mean by that? I meant if you have to use such tactics as intentionally misrepresenting what others say your doctrine is weak in that the very thing you hold to must be in error. This assumes that because you cannot reasonably defend it your personal version of it is errant. I do not assume as you do that you have interpreted that doctrine correctly. Further evidence of this has been shown by the likes of Tozer and Spurgeon who completely disagree with your personal version of Sola Scriptura. The way you interpret that doctrine is in error and your error is weak because you cannot defend it with any integrity.
What has been established in this thread is that Sola Scriptura in no way is threatened by those who have experienced hearing from God in ways other than reading scripture such as an inner voice. This has been accomplished by the following:
1. Personal testimony's
2. Testimony from great scholars and preachers like Tozer and Spurgeon
3. A clear definition and reasoned commentary by agedman
3. An established understanding that this in no way conflicts with scripture so long as what we perceive to hear from God is supported by scripture and not in conflict with it.
1. Personal testimony's
2. Testimony from great scholars and preachers like Tozer and Spurgeon
3. A clear definition and reasoned commentary by agedman
3. An established understanding that this in no way conflicts with scripture so long as what we perceive to hear from God is supported by scripture and not in conflict with it.
Just as I thought. Thanks for making it clear to everyone
Just as I thought. Thanks for making it clear to everyone
I have no idea what that means.Everything you have thought thus far has been wrong. So what wrong thing are you sticking with now?
RM ignores people who want him to answer honest questions. ...lol...no loss. He has not offered a positive comment in a long time.
Here is the thing I find most glaring about your list of proofs. No Scripure is presented at all. It's all subjective.
I don't touch testimony because I know people are sincere in their beliefs, but they are also subjective.
Tozer and Spurgeon are both fallible men who's words must always be shifted through Scripture. And having read the entire Sermon of Spurgeon that you keep referencing he is supporting sola Scriptura in that message just like he did in a lot of his messages. I also find it ironic that in other threads when Cals quote Spurgeon they are told that he is not authoritative, yet in this thread he is used as an authority by non cals. Icon did a great post talking about his sermons so maybe you should take him off ignore.
A clear definition that I said I agreed with and yet I have been told how wrong I am for standing up for Sola Scriptura. So I'm not sure how you thing that helps your case?
No understanding has been established. Clearly which is why this thread has gone one for over 200 post.
Now for some Objectives Statements:
9 How can a young man keep his way pure?
By guarding it according to your word.
10 With my whole heart I seek you;
let me not wander from your commandments!
11 I have stored up your word in my heart,
that I might not sin against you.
Ps. 119:9-11
Open my eyes, that I may behold
wondrous things out of your law
Ps. 119:18
41 Let your steadfast love come to me, O Lord,
your salvation according to your promise;
42 then shall I have an answer for him who taunts me,
for I trust in your word.
Ps. 119:41-42
89
Forever, O Lord, your word
is firmly fixed in the heavens.
Ps. 119:89
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
and a light to my path.
Ps. 119:105
Actually all of Ps. 119 is an amazing. And as I was reading through it I was thinking that the Psalmist wrote this while the canon was still open and yet he points to God's law, God's statue's, commandments, His Word as his comfort. He comes back to the Word over and over again for 176 verses. How much more should we be pointing not to subjective experiences or fallible Ben but to the complete Word of God now that the Canon is closed.
This is just one chapter that speaks to the authority and power of God's word.
Here I stand. Sola Scriptura.
Sola Scriptura as always
This is all he has....he accuses and hides..Do not be discouraged by such conduct.
And none of it says Sola Scriptura according to your personal interpretation of it.
Oh I'm not. I made it through 10 years, well 7 years of knowing what was wrong with the school, of a charismatic "Christian" school where I was constantly put down and attacked for my beliefs. This is tame in comparison. Not to mention I'm a bit of a black sheep in my family for my support of Sola Scriptura as well.
I just figure I am getting a very small taste like 1/1000 of what the reformers dealt with and I figure that is good company.
Of course I could really frustrated them by telling them some of my own experience since you can't be in charismatic setting as a young child and not have some, but I shift my experience through the Bible, not the Bible through my experiences.
So you don't think Ps. 119 and many many other passages support the Suffiency of Scripture? I want to make sure I understand you here and that everyone else can see clearly what you think.
I was reading in one of my Biblical theology books and came across some really good quotes that I want to share. Really good thoughts on how important the Bible is.
"Scripture does not, of course telll us everything we need to know about everything. We must look outside of Scripture if we want specific directions on how to fix a sink or repair a car. But Scripure tells us everything that God wants us to know 'concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life'. Scripture doesn't tell us how to repair a car but it tells us how to glorify God in repairing a car..."
The Doctrines of the Word of God by John M. Frame page 612-613
And then I thought this was good since I'm accused of being in left field on the subject of the Suffiency of Scripture
"Covenant documents in the ancient Near East often contained an 'inscription curse" a prohibition against adding or subtracting from the document. Scripture, our covenant document, also contains such language (Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Prov. 30:6; Rev. 22:18-19; cf Josh. 1:7). These passages do not forbid seeking information outside of Scripture. Rather they insist that we will never need any divine words in addition to God's written words, words that are available to us only in the Bible. That means as well that we should never place any human words on the same level of authority as those in Scripture. That would in be, in effect, adding to God's words.
4 Whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Adding to God's words can be done either by falsely claiming to have new words from God himself...."
Italics in original
Bold mine
Page 222.
Scripture Alone contains all we need for faith and practice.
"Scripture does not, of course telll us everything we need to know about everything. We must look outside of Scripture if we want specific directions on how to fix a sink or repair a car. But Scripure tells us everything that God wants us to know 'concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life'. Scripture doesn't tell us how to repair a car but it tells us how to glorify God in repairing a car..."
The Doctrines of the Word of God by John M. Frame page 612-613
And then I thought this was good since I'm accused of being in left field on the subject of the Suffiency of Scripture
"Covenant documents in the ancient Near East often contained an 'inscription curse" a prohibition against adding or subtracting from the document. Scripture, our covenant document, also contains such language (Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Prov. 30:6; Rev. 22:18-19; cf Josh. 1:7). These passages do not forbid seeking information outside of Scripture. Rather they insist that we will never need any divine words in addition to God's written words, words that are available to us only in the Bible. That means as well that we should never place any human words on the same level of authority as those in Scripture. That would in be, in effect, adding to God's words.
4 Whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Adding to God's words can be done either by falsely claiming to have new words from God himself...."
Italics in original
Bold mine
Page 222.
Scripture Alone contains all we need for faith and practice.
Not at all. I suggest you go back and read specifically what I posted in at least the first three posts on the thread. Then come and point out specifically what statement from the beginning that I ignored faith and practice.
I would not make that claim.
I suppose that when I was much much younger, that there was more occasions for prayer that may have been directed in that mode, but generally speaking, most of my prayer throughout my life has actually been praise, and thankfulness, for wisdom and guidance, for understanding and knowing, for being one who is awed by God, and humbled that He would be merciful to me - one who is so prone to transgress and sin.
Having something happen, or not, may certainly be a proof of answered prayer, but much more important to me has been the grateful and blessed fellowship as the God of all creation allows me into His domain. Too often, I think folks rattle off some words as if requests were supposed to be met by the answers doled out like candy on Halloween. For example, every Sunday there are across the world untold number of requests to bless this meeting, or that reading, or some offering, and really is any of that what God desires to hear from believers? "Here we are, Lord, we expect a handout..."
What is it that God wants to hear? Is it not praise, thankfulness, grieving over sinfulness, repentance from the very heart, a desire to have the Holy Spirit wean us from the fleshly, humility that He is our heart's desire? And many other such?
No wonder the believers and churches don't hear from God. Most are too programmed, too frothy, and too careful not to trip over the words of songs, readings, preaching, teaching ...
John states, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day..." Should not every believer - everyday?
No doubt, each point above is correct. But, frankly, that really isn't a part of what the OP is asking, is it?
I guess you could say I was using Christianizee when I said Prayer Request, where I specifically meant prayer requesting as in requesting that God do something. Example someone praying that they find a spouse. It either happens or it doesn't. Praises while being a part of prayer (and frankly they should be a much bigger part of prayer then request are but that is an aside) are separate from request which what specifically pointed out. The response I get to praise is Scripure showing more about the Character of God which should always result in more praise. But again it's Scripure that speaks not some thought in my head, or feeling, or impression etc. Scripture and Scripture Alone.
I will not argue with you there. Of course when most people are taught Moralistic Therapeutic Deism that god just wants then to be happy and if they live a good life god will grant their request like a genie of course prayer service will resemble request after request, instead of praise for who God is and what He gas done.
I would say that the Psalms give us a good indication of what God wants to hear from us. I love how most of the Psalms even if they start off focusing on the problems the Psalmist is in end with praising God for Who He is.
Yes if is hard to hear from God when our modern entertainment driven churches only leave time for one or two verses to be read before jumping into a self help speech.
Oh if Christian's would spend time in His Word it would be like that everyday.
Yeah it is. He asked how we recognized God's "voice within us"
God speaks through His Word, His Spirit Illuminates His Word. It all comes back to His Word since they are sufficient.
You got to know that I read that as "... I was using chimpanzee..."
I am thankful that the Scriptures speak to you.
B. B. McKinney wrote over 140 Hymns (some under other names) and many are (were) well know: Rise up, oh men of God, Back to Bethel I must Go, Have Faith in God when your Pathway is Lonely, Speak to my Heart, Lord Jesus (one of my favorite to pray in song )
I do not recall a lyric he wrote that he could not find in the Scriptures.
I don't know of any poster who would disagree.
What seems to be the sticking point, is the trend to "only" that appears back a few pages on the thread.
What I am attempting to discern is if you and some others are still placing "Sola Scriptura" as the "only" way God communicates.
If that is true, then that has extended the definition (as I showed back a few pages) and is inconsistent with the intent of the Reformers.
I have spent time looking for some indication of the "only" being included, and just can't find any documentation of the Reformers having that understanding.
Please, do not assume that I place anything above the authority of Scriptures.
However, prayer is not telling God what God already has told the believer. I have heard many go on and on saying such things as, "In Your Word You say..." or "I read from Your Word..." or even sermonizing a prayer as if God is interested!
God already knows what He said, and He doesn't need to bless it more that what the Holy Spirit already does. Such prayer is mere wordiness.
Prayer is that communication between believer and God, to take place primarily in the privacy of one on one, in which the believer's heart can cry out, and God can communicate as He chooses. Certainly, the communication may be His Scriptures; and it may also be: His peace, His love, His understanding, His soft whisper, .... It is His authority to communicate with His creation (and especially those who are heirs) as He chooses. If we are to wrestle against the things unseen, it is important to hear and understand so to not run off at the wrong trumpet blast.
If the believer expects answers to prayer, they need to discern who is giving the answer. To do that, the believer must be well acquainted with not only the Scriptures but the impulses of the Holy Spirit as distinguished from the urging of the enemy of believers. That takes maturity of both understanding and wisdom in Scriptures and communication skills. The practiced challenge to weed out that which ultimately is ungodly and anti-christ.
You mentioned on a post how you stood against the forceful onslaught of the modern charisma. (imo) The charismatic fluff is not merely misguided, but is more often demonically empowered by folks that have listened to an evil spirit and considered it good. They have never truly grown up in discerning.
Sour grapes syndrome .... some do not hear from God as others do, thus, they act out with a jealous spirit. You don't have to believe God speaks to us, I get it; but quit being a party pooper, Tom! Roflmao
Hear are a few links that may 'speak' to you about the many ways God speaks to His children. Let me add that though we disagree, I love you, and would never turn away from helping you if the need arose. God bless you as we enter this advent season.
http://bibleseo.com/church/ways-god-speak-to-his-people/
http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/47909-5-ways-god-speaks-to-his-people
http://www.crosswalk.com/faith/spiritual-life/8-ways-god-speaks-to-us-today.html
Shalom, Tom!
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