Heresy

[standingfirminChrist]

I believe the admonitions about about those false teachers who are "accursed" and are to be rejected are regarding those preaching a false gospel.

A completly different gospel.

Are these ones whom are being NAMED on this thread as being worthy of rejection teaching a false gospel, or just seeing some particulars of the faith differently then we do?

Are they teaching that Jesus Christ is NOT "the way, the truth and the life", and that no one can come to the Father but by Him?

Are they rejecting justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone?

Are they teaching that one can be saved through Buddah, Muhummed, Krishna, Islam, etc etc etc?

It seems to me that if their primary error is that some will be excluded from the Millenial period, but that they will still be saved, than its an issue where we should disagree, yet not break fellowship.

I'm not real knowledgable of this issue, just tidbits that I've picked up on this thread, so I'm not real comfortable with naming names and deciding they are to be figuratively "burned at the stake" for their "wickedness" of doctrine...if they are OK with the foundational things.

Do we want to be like those picking up the stones to hurl, or like Jesus who said "You who are without sin...?

Mike

In reality, they are preaching another gospel than we have received. They are preaching a Christ that will cast out those who came to Him and received Salvation. The Christ of the Bible says He will in no wise cast out those who come to Him.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

rbell once enjoyed the Judy Garland movie, "Strike up the banned!"

wait...did I spell that right?

:laugh: Yep...I bet another round is at hand.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Oh yea, I can tell the difference, are you sure you are not one who would be listed as false doctrine. I don't know but I do know that we almost all differ on doctrine at some point, Does that mean then we get blacklisted. I think it should be left up to the owners of the board. The BB don't belong to me or you.

The board does not belong to us, Bob. But moderators have told us if we feel we need to use the ignore function, it is at our disposal. I am sure it is at our discretion too.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I am consider ME is a heresy. I first read ME book -"Beyond The Rapture!" by Gary T. Whipple, which I brought it at deaf bible conference. But, I haven't yet start to read that book for a year. Finally, in 2001, I start to read it, and I started to agree with it. Before I brought that book. I was nut on rapture doctrine and escathology stuffs.

In year 2000, I study on Matthew chapter 24 and 25. Matthew 25:30 bothered me the mostly. Because, years ago, I watched and listened pastors preach/teach on Matthew 25:14-30 about 'talents'. I noticed them, they skipped verse 30. Why?

When I see Matt. 25:30, it really bothered me lot, because it is much conflict with security salvation doctrine. Because, myself as baptist, I used to believe in security salvation doctrine, as I was taught by baptist churches and colleges. Even, read Sword of the Lord on security salvation. I thought independent fundamental baptist(IFB) churche steaching the truth and sound doctrines. But, I was so disappoint with IFB, that they did not intepreting or follow the Bible correctly.

I consider, unconditional security salvation doctrine among IFB churches are more damaged to thousands or millions of souls and baptists than MED doctrine.

Shock? Yeah.

Let me telling you something. I am glad that Joey Faust is bold and aggressive to warning to his congregation, and set conferences. I praise God for him. Because, he saw conditionals in Bible, which are clearly warnings to Christians. He is right. We ought listen what the Bible saying. I have nothing against Joey Faust, for his teaching. I did emailed to him three times about ME. Joey Faust did emailed to me twice, But, he doesn't want to discuss with me. So, I leave him alone. There are so many errors in his book. I did read his book - "The Rod". His teaching is sound like purgatory. I reject it. His teaching is unbiblical.

But, many things that I do agree with Faust, that we should fear God, and serve him, and walking godly life for God. Ought to listen warnings from the Bible. But, Faust believes in unconditional security salvation doctrine same as IFB.

Faust do have actual many serious problems within his intepretings, because he holds security salvation doctrine, while teaching on purgatory same time. That doesn't make a sense.

The Bible clearly teaching us, when once for a unfaithful servant is cast IN the fire, he is doomed DONE! No promise for a unfaithful servant shall be finally being released out of the fire beyond the judgment day.

Faust believes Christian shall suffer second death of Rev. 2:10-11. But, he says it is temporary.

Second death is temporary??? NO WAY!

Use our common sense, Rev. 20:14-15 is clear telling us that, the lake of fire IS the "second death", simple means everlasting punishment, not temporary or 1000 years either.

Anyway, I better stop now.

Just let you know what my feeling on ME teaching.

But, in other way, I am disappoint with IFB and SBC and other 300 organizations of 'baptist' are not follow the Bible correctly, most of them hold on security salvation doctrine.

I consider unconditional security salvation doctrine is hersey and itching ear of 2 Tim. 4:3-4. Means it is popular and comfortable teaching.

Sorry to say it.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[saturneptune]

In reality, they are preaching another gospel than we have received. They are preaching a Christ that will cast out those who came to Him and received Salvation. The Christ of the Bible says He will in no wise cast out those who come to Him.

NO man knows who is and is not saved. You may have a good idea, but only God knows a man's heart. The last time I checked, none of us are God.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Is there any well known teachers today who preach this doctrine? As in any preachers will large ministries, or is this a somewhat obscure teaching?

I think Mark Byers from kingdom living teaches this.

I don't know of too many well known teachers today who would preach this. Consider the well known preachers of today are folks like Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Joel Osteen etc. and if the reaction on this board is indicative of how the rest of the world would receive this doctrine, you can imagine it would not be healthy for mega church growthing. What I would think should be compelling to folks who are looking for vindication outside of scripture alone, would be the preachers from the past. Take a look at the books on Schoettle Publishing which publishes books relative to this doctrine. Take a look at their author list...

• Ray E. Baughman
• Paul N. Benware
• Mark G. Cambron
• Joseph Dillow
• Kenneth F. Dodson
• J. D. Faust
• Robert Govett
• G. H. Lang
• Martha Lever
• Philip Mauro
• R. E. Neighbour
• D. M. Panton
• G. H. Pember
• George N. H. Peters
• Arthur W. Pink
• Earl D. Radmacher
• C. Norman Sellers
• Gerald B. Stanton
• Gary T. Whipple
• A. Edwin Wilson

You can add to that list names like Watchman Nee and AW Tozer.

Most folks on this board respect CH Spurgeon. Here's what Spurgeon said about Robert Govett...

"Mr. Govett wrote a hundred years before his time, and the day will come when his works will be treasured as sifted gold." Charles H. Spurgeon​

Yet, on this board there are folks that would advocate shunning Robert Govett (even though Spurgeon obviously respected him) and all the others I just listed on the basis that they're heretics advocating heresy.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Cutter, I think you need to get off your high horse.
I will not ride it with you! Who made you the decider of who is allowed on this board. Makes me sick to my stomach. :BangHead:

Being ignored is not deciding who should be on the board, Bob. It is deciding who's posts one wants to subject one's self to read.

Cutter's decision to place the ME crowd on ignore is based on his interpretation of Titus 3:10. Isn't that part of the Word of God? That we are to reject heretic's?

 

[Brother Bob]

The board does not belong to us, Bob. But moderators have told us if we feel we need to use the ignore function, it is at our disposal. I am sure it is at our discretion too.

I am the first on this thread who said this board does not belong to us. If you want to put someone on "ignore", do it, but do not start a compaign about it.

I wonder if any put you on "ignore" over the "real" wine. I supported you even though you were almost completely alone in your belief. I believed that you had a right to your belief and respected it. I do not believe in the Millinium to be literal, that is a lot on here, but I am so happy to discover, many believe as I do on the Mill. Should I be put on "ignore"?

This is a "debate" board. If we all of the same mind, there would be no debate. Maybe you want to just discuss with those who believe exactly as you do, but I do not. The reason I have learned, including your "real" wine, it because it caused me to study the scripture from beginning to end over "wine". There is a purpose in debate, and it is not to ignore those we differ with.

peace,
BBob

Being ignored is not deciding who should be on the board, Bob. It is deciding who's posts one wants to subject one's self to read.

.
Then do it personally and do not start a compaign. Love your enemies, if you love your own, you have not done anything for even the world loves its own. Jesus went in and sat down with the sinners. You do the same if you want to be Christlike.

 

[rbell]

There are two very important reasons I'm involved on the debate thread:

1. I like to keep my disgust fresh.:laugh: :laugh:
2. I like to see who's wrong.:saint: :laugh:

47% of my posts contain no seriousness whatsoever. It's your job to decide what is in that 47 percent.

(By the way, did you know that 65.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot?)

 

[standingfirminChrist]

47%? I thought it was closer to 81%:laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

The only time I have used the word heresy in my time on this board was in regard to the ME teaching. I stand on that. It has many Catholic characteristics, which I also deny as Biblical. I don't have a problem with it being debated, but I don't think it should be allowed in the Baptist only section, but rather in the Other Denoms section.
Most of what we debate on the board amounts to differences of opinion, but we all come together on things like the deity of Christ and His promises of eternal salvation to those who believe. But when someone says Christ's sacrifice was not enough to keep us out of hell, that is heresy. It denies the power, authority and promise of Christ to keep us in His hand for eternity.

I don't apologize for defending my faith and calling sin what it is...sin.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Calm down, Bob.

I did not start the campaign to ignore those teaching heretical doctrines.

Truth be known, it was not Cutter either.

It was started by Paul when he wrote in his Epistle to Titus, 'A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition, reject. Cutter only obeyed that which is in that Epistle

 

[J. Jump]

Are these ones whom are being NAMED on this thread as being worthy of rejection teaching a false gospel, or just seeing some particulars of the faith differently then we do?

Are they teaching that Jesus Christ is NOT "the way, the truth and the life", and that no one can come to the Father but by Him?

Are they rejecting justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone?

Are they teaching that one can be saved through Buddah, Muhummed, Krishna, Islam, etc etc etc?

It seems to me that if their primary error is that some will be excluded from the Millenial period, but that they will still be saved, than its an issue where we should disagree, yet not break fellowship.

I'm not real knowledgable of this issue, just tidbits that I've picked up on this thread, so I'm not real comfortable with naming names and deciding they are to be figuratively "burned at the stake" for their "wickedness" of doctrine...if they are OK with the foundational things.

Do we want to be like those picking up the stones to hurl, or like Jesus who said "You who are without sin...?

Mike

Mike it is encouraging that there are still folks on this board that are sensible even though we may disagree. I would like to address your questions, so that you will have an idea of where we are coming from.

Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to the Father. We can only receive everlasting life by God's grace through faith apart from works. Our faith is to be in the Substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God on our behalf a sinner. That's the ONLY way we can receive everlasting life. Works NEVER enter that picture EVER, whether prior to, during or after - NO works means NO works.

No one can be saved for all eternity by any other "god" that is preached today.

There will be some who do not receive the reward of the inheritance. That my friend is no error. The idea that all saved people will rule and reign with Christ in His coming kingdom despite their unfaithfulness, lack of obedience and having been overcome by Satan, the flesh and/or the world is simply not true.

The unfaithful, disobedient and non-overcoming servant does not get to rule and reign with the King of kings and the Lord of lords. If they did there would be no need to be faithful, obedient and overcoming. You could enjoy all the fruits of this world and all that glory has to offer as well. But Scripture is clear that we can not serve two masters. If we sow to the flesh we WILL reap corruption not life.

This is the one message that Satan hates the most and he has spent his entire existence trying to wipe out this message and it's messengers because this doctrine directly impacts him. He is currently the god of this world and this message is a message that declares that his rule is soon to be up and this message shares with folks how they can be a part of the new ruling order. It is AWESOME news (gospel) to know that we can have a part in the coming reign of the King of kings and Lord of lords should we choose to accept this offer and live according to the rules set out before us.

This reward is based on a faith that works, according to the book of James. Where most people get their theological trousers in a wad is because they think we are relying on "our" works, which couldn't be further from the truth.

The works are works done in and through us by the Holy Spirit. But because of God's grace they are credited to our account as if we did them ourselves.

If JJump does ANYTHING in this life it will be wood, hay and stubble, because "my" works are but filthy rags. However when JJump dies to self and allows the manifested life of Christ to be lived out through his members by the Holy Spirit then gold, silver and precious stones are produced that will stand the test of fire.

So they are God's works, but they are credited to our account as if they are our works.

Hope this clears things up for you! Thanks again for your sensibility even though you may not see Scripture this way. I hope you will at least take the time to study the matter out in greater detail.

When I studied this material out starting about two years ago I thought these folks were off their rocker as much as the next guy. But when you start to look at what the Scriptures actually "say" then there is no way to refute it. It is taught throughout the entire Scriptures OT and NT alike.

 

[rbell]

47%? I thought it was closer to 81%:laugh:

That's where the "made up on the spot" statistic came from.

81% it is.

But SFIC, if my post is one of the 19%....you really should listen.:applause:

 

[J. Jump]

But when someone says Christ's sacrifice was not enough to keep us out of hell, that is heresy. It denies the power, authority and promise of Christ to keep us in His hand for eternity.

That is heresy, but you will not find one of these people that spout off this stuff than can produce even ONE quote from any of us that have ever said such.

It is simply their dealing in emotions instead of actual debate. They have been called on the carpet MANY times and have NEVER been able to produce ANY evidence for their accusations.

It's sad, but when people run out of actual debate topics and they see that "their" theology is crumbling around them then these are the things they resort to because they are left with nothing else.

 

[npetreley]

With all the shunning going on, I almost thought I had wandered on to a Jehovah's Witnesses board. I have never felt compelled to put anyone on ignore, as I figure I can see what others think without it impacting me, unless perhaps I could be wrong. Sadly, it looks like this board may be approaching a self-destruct mode. It would be hard to have debate sections if the debate was "Yeah, I agree". "Me too!". This is the problem with declaring "heresy". It places certain things off limits from even discussing their merits or lack thereof.

And if someone is truly errant, why not share with them rather than shunning?

Just my two cents worth, adjusted for inflation.

So it's okay to preach a false gospel, but it's not okay to recommend putting false teachers on ignore?

The Bible says let people who teach a false gospel be accursed. What does it say about recommending that we put those people on ignore? Oh, yeah, SFIC already provided that quote...

.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Word of God says if they won't receive admonition after two times, reject them. That word 'reject' means 'shun' or 'avoid'.

I think it is following Biblical doctrine to ignore them.

It certainly is not Biblical doctrine to continue to listen to them spout off that Christ will turn His own away into outer darkness or into hell.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It is better to put them on ignore and be done with it, than to post after every one of their posts "I reject you".:wavey:

 

[npetreley]

The Word of God says if they won't receive admonition after two times, reject them. That word 'reject' means 'shun' or 'avoid'.

I think it is following Biblical doctrine to ignore them.

It certainly is not Biblical doctrine to continue to listen to them spout off that Christ will turn His own away into outer darkness or into hell.

Amen. Even worse, ME proponent J. D. Faust claims believers will suffer in the lake of fire (prepared for the devil and his angels) for 1,000 years.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Amen. Even worse, ME proponent J. D. Faust claims believers will suffer in the lake of fire (prepared for the devil and his angels) for 1,000 years.

If this is unintended then please educate yourself before you make these comments. If this is intentional, and I suspect it is, I beg you to please, please, please stop your lying, please. raying: