Heresy

[Lacy Evans]

I have this really funny picture in my head of Cutter and his boys trying to follow one half of a conversation, but being too proud to turn off the ignore thingy. I'll bet they are peeking!:laugh: :laugh:

lacy

 

[Brother Bob]

'Sides, then I couldn't correct your posts. :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

I would miss having you around Ed;

 

[JDale]

So what? This isn't a popularity contest, it's about a true gospel vs. a false gospel.



Then why don't you listen to what the Bible says about such thing? I'm guessing that either you are not certain it is a false gospel heresy, or you are certain but you're willing to ignore how the Bible says to react.



Now look at what Paul says immediately afterward...



Also, while John was talking about a different heresy, the principle still applies.



So call me a self-righteous close-minded jerk. I don't mind.

Dear Self-Righteous, Close-Minded Jerk:

It does not surprise me that you number yourself among those who refuse to listen to any opinion other than your own. In all our previous "debates," your attitude has been the same. "Agree with me or you obviously are not of God."

It is abundantly obvious that you have no interest in debating brothers and allowing "iron to sharpen iron," much less to humbly explain truth set against error so that (prayerfully) some lost or confused souls might be rescued from it. "Verily, I say unto thee, you have your reward."

You'll note, NPet, that I don't have you on ignore, and I'm not screaming to ban you from BaptistBoard. Despite your evident arrogance and disdain toward me and all others who might disagree with you, I value hearing your opinion and discerning your attitude -- if for no other reason than to identify what I hope God never allows me to become (or has in fact rescued me from).

JDale

 

[Rufus_1611]

I have this really funny picture in my head of Cutter and his boys trying to follow one half of a conversation, but being too proud to turn off the ignore thingy. I'll bet they are peeking!:laugh: :laugh:

lacy

Guaranteed.

Hi npetreley :wavey:

 

[James_Newman]

Now this is a case of "guilt by association" if I ever saw it. I know Lewis Schoettle, personally, and he is also an alumnus of the same school I graduated from, Florida Bible College. He is in the business and ministry of printing 'Christian books'. He is not in the business of "overanalyzing" theology, per se, so probably does not check to see if every book he prints agrees in every detail in every area of doctrine, with his own views.

And I, as also did Mr. Schoettle, have the late Dr. Mark G. Cambron as a teacher whom we both knew personally, as well. I can assure you that Dr. Cambron did not teach the so-called ME doctrine, since he is no longer alive and able to defend himself.

That being said, I am not commenting on whether or not I believe ME to be Biblically correct or not, for that is not the purpose of this post, and I don't want to sidetrack it.

But it is somewhat telling, about our tendency to judge another man's servant. And his or her motives.

I cannot comment on what all the others mentioned here believe or believed, for many of them I do not know, nor have even heard of. I'm a farmer and cab driver, not a theologian, by trade.

Ed

Lewis Schoettle publishes these books specifically to promote the doctrine that we are discussing.

Schoettle (pronounced as "shuttle") Publishing Company, Inc. has been been publishing quality Bible commentaries and studies for over twenty-three years regarding the Kingdom of God. In many instances, it is impossible to obtain these resources elsewhere. There are more than eighty titles relating to events leading up to the Judgment Seat of Christ and His Millennial Kingdom from which to choose.

 

[EdSutton]

There are two very important reasons I'm involved on the debate thread:

1. I like to keep my disgust fresh.:laugh: [Smilie snipped]
2. I like to see who's wrong.:saint: :laugh:

47% of my posts contain no seriousness whatsoever. It's your job to decide what is in that 47 percent.

(By the way, did you know that 65.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot?)

No, but I knew that 4 out of every 3 people have problems with fractions.

Ed

 

[Hope of Glory]

There are some (sometimes it seems like many) on this board with whom I disagree. There are none who I have put on ignore.

Sometimes listening to those you disagree with will cause you to do further study on your own beliefs. After that study you will be more able to defend your own beliefs or perhaps in some instances decide you were wrong to begin with. If you ignore people you disagree with you will not have this chance for further study and growth.

Bill

When I was in Bible college, they set up a Calvin/Arminian debate, and assigned you to a side. It didn't matter your beliefs. I objected on the grounds that you cannot defend something that you believe to be false.

Well, I was wrong. I went in, found the contradictions (in both sides), covered them up rather nicely, then "won" on both sides of the debate. Afterward (during the next class), I showed where both were right and both were wrong.

It doesn't hurt to know the "other" side, as it either pokes holes in what you already believe, or supports what you already believe.

But, after "winning" both sides of the debate, they wouldn't let me enter the general debates any more; only specifics.

 

[JDale]

Quick Question!!!!!



If I am not mistaken (which never happens, me being mistaken), during the the 1000 year reign there will be non-christians among Christians again on Earth. Because Satan will still be out and about stirring up problems and trying for one last go at it. There will be children born at that time, there will be those who are psuedo-christians, saying the right things, but believing something different. So how does the Christian with no works, no fruit end up in hell for 1000 years. Right? See that's the quick question.


Again I maybe mistaken, but that isn't likely.

During the 1000 years, Satan is bound in "the bottomless pit" (Revelation 20:1-6). However, there will be humans alive entering the millennial reign -- During that time humans will be naturally born and will still be required to trust Christ to be "saved." Some won't. Some will rebel. That's how Satan, when he is released from the bottomless pit to mount one last rebellion, will be able to recruit followers.

JDale

 

[Rufus_1611]

Dear Self-Righteous, Close-Minded Jerk:

It does not surprise me that you number yourself among those who refuse to listen to any opinion other than your own. In all our previous "debates," your attitude has been the same. "Agree with me or you obviously are not of God."

It is abundantly obvious that you have no interest in debating brothers and allowing "iron to sharpen iron," much less to humbly explain truth set against error so that (prayerfully) some lost or confused souls might be rescued from it. "Verily, I say unto thee, you have your reward."

You'll note, NPet, that I don't have you on ignore, and I'm not screaming to ban you from BaptistBoard. Despite your evident arrogance and disdain toward me and all others who might disagree with you, I value hearing your opinion and discerning your attitude -- if for no other reason than to identify what I hope God never allows me to become (or has in fact rescued me from).

JDale

Another fine post. I would desire to point out too on behalf of the Kingdom Accountability crowd that in the Tozer thread, in between telling us to castrate ourselves and calling us names, npetreley took to questioning whether or not we were saved. In Christian mercy, there was no outcry for having him banned or ignored in spite of these clear violations of BB rules as we desired instead to try to reason with him. Sadly, this same courtesy has not been reciprocated.

 

[Hope of Glory]

No doubt, a cross between a horse and a camel.



Ed

Isn't that heretical?

 

[Rufus_1611]

When I was in Bible college, they set up a Calvin/Arminian debate, and assigned you to a side. It didn't matter your beliefs. I objected on the grounds that you cannot defend something that you believe to be false.

Well, I was wrong. I went in, found the contradictions (in both sides), covered them up rather nicely, then "won" on both sides of the debate. Afterward (during the next class), I showed where both were right and both were wrong.

It doesn't hurt to know the "other" side, as it either pokes holes in what you already believe, or supports what you already believe.

But, after "winning" both sides of the debate, they wouldn't let me enter the general debates any more; only specifics.

A Calvin/Arminian debate as if there are no other options...isn't that clever? I was a Calvinist and couldn't reconcile all the conditional verses, I was an Arminianist and couldn't reconcile all of the eternal security verses, I received the kingdom accountability doctrine, everything began to fit into place and I became a Baptist.

 

[ShotGunWillie]

During the 1000 years, Satan is bound in "the bottomless pit" (Revelation 20:1-6). However, there will be humans alive entering the millennial reign -- During that time humans will be naturally born and will still be required to trust Christ to be "saved." Some won't. Some will rebel. That's how Satan, when he is released from the bottomless pit to mount one last rebellion, will be able to recruit followers.

JDale

Thank you very much!!! I appreciate that, I thought I had about 50% of it right but when I wrote it down it didn't seem accurate. Thanks again for acknowledging my existence.

Yours Truly,
Community Troll

 

[Rufus_1611]

Isn't that heretical?

Naaah it's genetical.

 

[JDale]

The Word of God says to "Contend for the Faith," and to do it earnestly.
The only way to do that is fight fire with fire. That means using the Word of God and not ignoring people. If you ignore heresy then heresy spreads going unrefuted. If it is refuted Scripturally the only answer a cornered person usually comes back with is the lame: "Well that's your opinion; that's your interpretation." They say that because their interpretation/opinion is different and they have no Scripture to back it up. Heresy needs to be exposed not ignored.

Tis indeed rare that I and DHK agree on anything -- my compliments DHK, you NAILED this!



JDale

 

[Hope of Glory]

A Calvin/Arminian debate as if there are no other options...isn't that clever? I was a Calvinist and couldn't reconcile all the conditional verses, I was an Arminianist and couldn't reconcile all of the eternal security verses, I received the kingdom accountability doctrine, everything began to fit into place and I became a Baptist.

I asked them that question before the debate: Why only the two options?

"Well, you have to be one or the other!"

They didn't ask me again.

 

[JDale]

Thank you very much!!! I appreciate that, I thought I had about 50% of it right but when I wrote it down it didn't seem accurate. Thanks again for acknowledging my existence.

Yours Truly,
Community Troll

Troll?!? Surely not!

Is there a rule here -- "Do not feed the trolls?"

Ah, well, enjoy the filet mignon SGW.



JDale

 

[saturneptune]

I clicked the thread out of curiosity how a thread could have over 100 posts...

Rabbit trail is the operative word here.

You need to do something about that hair cut.
http://www.baptistboard.com/customavatars/avatar9685_1.gif

 

[charles_creech78]

2 Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, THAT THERE SHALL COME IN THE LAST DAYS scoffers, walking after their own lust, 2 Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the father fell ASLEEP, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2 pe 3:5 For this willingly are IGNORANT of, that by WORD OF GOD THE HEAVENS WERE OF OLD, and THE EARTH STANDING OUT OF THE WATER AND IN THE WATER: 2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being everflowed with water perished: 2 Pe 3:7 But then heaven and the earth, which are now, by the same word are KEPT IN STORE, RESERVED UNTO FIRE AGAINST THE DAY OF JUDGMENT AND PERDITION OF UNGODLY MEN. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not IGNORANT of this one thing, that one day is with the lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as ONE day. 2Pe 3:9 the lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. 2 Pe 3:10 But the day of the LORD will come as a theif in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then all these things shall DISSOLVED, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy CONVERSATION and GODLINESS. who said it is going to be a 1000 whatever when he come? 2Pe 3:12 LOOKING for the COMING OF THE DAY OF THE GOD, wherein the HEAVENS BEING ON FIRE SHALL BE DISSOLVED,AND THE ELEMENTS SHALL MELT WITH FERVENT HEAT? I know what I will be looking for when he comes. 2 Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[npetreley]

You need to do something about that hair cut.
http://www.baptistboard.com/customavatars/avatar9685_1.gif

Dang hippie. I may be covered in hair, but at least it's short like God intended for a male beaver.

 

[EdSutton]

Lewis Schoettle publishes these books specifically to promote the doctrine that we are discussing.

While this may be somewhat true, once again, this is not entirely true. I repeat what I said about the late Dr. Mark G. Cambron. My comments, as touch on Dr. Cambron are not mere repeating what someone else (may have) said, but on personal knowledge and classroom teachings and hearing.

So not all do hold to 'ME' who are published, here. Another example would be Dr. A. Ray Stanford, whose Handbook of Personal Evangelism is also printed by Schottle Publishing. Again, I know Dr. Stanford, personally, and he does not hold to this teaching, either.

And not all teaching regarding the kingdom and the Judgment seat of Christ, are related to ME teachings, either.

This is not a case of if one believes in the Judgment Seat for believers (which BTW, an a-milleniallist does not believe in, by definition, but sees it as synonomous with the Great White Throne, for the teaching of 'only' one general judgment), one necessarily believes in Millennial Exclusion, for not all do, including some, if not most, "classic dispensationalists".

Certainly, C.I.Scofield, one of the main acknowledged 'godfathers' of dispensationalism, did not teach this, at least not in the Scofield Reference Bible. Nor did such as H. A. Ironside, Lewis S. Chafer, and I've never heard such attributed to John N. Darby, either, although I do not know what he actually believed on this, not having read much by him. However, as 'controversial' as this appears, I would think that it would be front page news, if that was what he actually taught.

Please avoid overly generalizing in this. It confuses the issue(s) involved, and only leads to more misunderstanding(s).

Ed