Hip hop church

[EdSutton]

Source...or was this published in last month's Legalist Weekly?

This was the funniest thing I've read on here in a long time! Now satan is a musician who creates instruments? HAHAHAHA....

The devil went down to Georgia
He was lookin' for a soul to steal
He was in a bind
'Cause he was way behind
And he was willin' to make a deal

When he came across this young man
Sawin' on a fiddle and playin' it hot
And the devil jumped up on a hickory stump
And said boy let me tell you what

I guess you didn't know it
but I'm a fiddle player too
And if you care to take a dare I'll make a bet with you

Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy
But give the devil his due
I'll bet a fiddle of gold
Against your soul
'Cause I think I'm better than you
. . .
The devil opened up his case
And he said I'll start this show
And fire flew from his fingertips
As he rosined up his bow

Then he pulled the bow across the strings
And it made an evil hiss
And a band of demons joined in
And it sounded something like this
. . .

I guess now we know where the Charlie Daniels Band got that song!

Straight out of some 'hip-hop' church.


BTW, seriously, Satan was, as Lucifer, the heavenly Choir director, prior to his pride and fall.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I like how the NASB translates this verse. I think it does a better job at conveying the real meaning of the verse.


"Abstain from ever form of evil." 1 Th 5:22

Basically whenever evil appears, in any form we should flee from it. This is the real meassage of that verse.

I believe NASB actually renders the word as "every", not as "ever".

Signed, Language Cop

 

[EdSutton]

Jesus did not use a version. He was the Word that came down from heaven and dwelt among men.

You say Jesus did not use the KJV... I submit to you He did not use the NIV, NASB, HCSB, ESV, ERV, Douay-Rheims, nor any other MV on the market.

Jesus did not use a version? Uh, have you read the various gospel accounts? Here's some, for size. It's from Luke 4.

3 And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.”
4 But Jesus answered him, saying,[b] “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’”[c]
5 Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him[d] all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.”
8 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan![e] For[f] it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”[g]
9 Then he brought Him to Jerusalem, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down from here. 10 For it is written:


‘ He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you,’
11 and,


‘ In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”[h]

12 And Jesus answered and said to him, “It has been said, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’”[i]
. . .
16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 “ The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,[j]
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.”[k]
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Lk. 4:3-12, 16-21 - NKJV)

He referenced three diferent Scripture verses, (Deut. 8:3; 6:13; 6:16) in His dialogue with the Devil (Satan), at the temptation, by noting that they were written down, and read from Isaiah, in the synagogue (Isa. 61:1-2a). And I am fairly sure that the Nazareth synagogue did not have the autographs of Isaiah, but a copy or version, whether in Hebrew or the LXX, and as it is not the exact same text the Lord read from that is found in Isaiah 61:1-2a, in the version I use, I assume it was itself a version. And the three verses the Lord quoted to Satan, are not identical, either, to what is found in my Bible, and I'm fairly sure the KJV, as well show some differences in what Jesus quoted as 'written' and what appears in the OT where it is written.

I do not see that Jesus here said, "I am the Word, Satan, so here it is, on MY authority!"

Rather He said, "It is written!"

Ed

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

When Jesus said, 'It is written...', He was just affirming that which He had told the prophets to write down.

 

[npetreley]

In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

And the Word He spoke was not identical to the KJV, which should tell you that the KJV is not the same thing as the Word.

 

[EdSutton]

There are certain songs and music that God will not hear.

Another example:

KJV Amos 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.

FTR, there was no such thing as a viol, violin, viola, cello, or 'bass' when the OT was written. There were such things as lutes, lyres, and harps, however.

Ed

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

And the Word He spoke was not identical to the NIV, the NASB, the HCSB, the ERV, the ESV, etc....

 

[Filmproducer]

CCK, what exactly is your point? If Jesus did not use any of the modern versions, KJV included, what is the problem?

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

FTR, there was no such thing as a viol, violin, viola, cello, or 'bass' when the OT was written. There were such things as lutes, lyres, and harps, however.

Ed

There were instruments that were forerunners of the violin from before Christ. They resembled the violin somewhat.

 

[EdSutton]

That's because rap music hasn't created as much damage in today's churches as RW has. Rap music will probably catch up, I can't wait, I have just been waiting to begin wearing my Gold Mercedes Symbol and chain again.

Uh, for those of us not in on the lingo, what exactly is "RW"?

Real Water?? Red Wine?? Railing Women?? Why not RM for "railing men?"

Ed

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

I have no problem, FP. It is those who continue to try to justify the lust of the eyes, flesh and heart who have the problem.

It is those who insist that God is pleased with any kind of music as long as it has Christian lyrics that have the problem.

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

Uh, for those of us not in on the lingo, what exactly is "RW"?

Real Water?? Red Wine?? Railing Women?? Why not RM for "railing men?"

Ed

RW is in reference to Rick Warren

 

[Pastor Larry]

I recall love scenes from movies where Bach was playing in the background, and the people making love were not married. (I believe "Children of a lesser god" had such a scene.) Was this just a total miscalculation on the part of the person who scored the movie?

No, it is an acknowledgement of what I already said … that good music can be used wrongly.

The scene you describe would turn me off no matter what music was playing.

Which wasn’t the point. The point is about the type of music you hear there.

It may happen, but to the pure, all things are pure. I guess I just don't see it.

Tthat’s a misuse of the line about the pure. The fact that you don’t see it says more about your sight, it seems to me.

Nobody is denying the fact that music sets moods. Muzak sets a calming mood for most people. It annoys the heck out of me. But this is not morality.

That is morality. I can’t help but think you don’t even understand what the issues are here. Morality means that music has meaning. It is not morally neutral.

 

[vermae]

I wouldn't go... but that is just me.

Are you in a big urban area?

I live in a middle size town and city that used to be called the Queen city.It is now a town were anything goes and a murder is committed almost every other month.There are over 78 churches and we are over loaded with drugs and other crimes.Our school system was rated as one of the highest and now is at the bottom of the list.Just what we need a "hip hop church"

 

[Pastor Larry]

Please define "Immoral Music" using musical vocabulary. Be technical, not emotional. While you're at it define good music. Please also give reasons why the "constructs" ae evil or good. i asking you to quantify, not qulaify your definitions. I have my definitions. I really believe we may be saying basically the same thing only using a different vocabulary.

Immoral music is music that means something immoral. The meaning is in the music itself, the way it is constructed. Read Copland or Bernstein, or a host of others.

If the commuication is "inherent" (and so clear) why do all people not react in the same way to a musical stimulus?

They generally do, but that's not really the issue.

 

[Pastor Larry]

...and I suggest to you that they have, and are still today. The newest "thing" in music are "mash ups"...combining one music style with another using a similar rhythym.

They aren't. I daresay that no nightclub is using symphony orchestras as their music of choice. I think you know that. Remember, the issue is not the tune. It is the style of music.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Nobody has STILL told us what chords and molodies are moral....

And with good reason. Chords and melodies are not moral. It is the construction of the music, in the relationship of melody, harmony, and rhythm.

I think much of this discussion is going astray by this kind of mistake.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I believe we, myself included, have been using some terms incorrectly. We are using Amoral to mean "evil" when actually we should be using the word IMmoral.

Amoral actually means neither moral nor immoral. A neutral word

Yes, we should know what words we are using.

 

[Pastor Larry]

... these very same people are on the front lines loudly proclaiming the gospel and reaching the lost.

Are they? How do you konw? And is God pleased with it?

It is sad to see some of you so full of righteous idignation. Get over yourselves, because in all honesty those of us out in the trenches willing to change the slogans, (thanks rbell), don't have the time or the energy to waste on you.

Perhaps you are the one full of righteous indignation. You seem to be attacking those who disagree personally. Why? Why can't someone disagree with you without you attacking them?

I have seen the guys from the holy hip hop site in person, and they are truly great people who love the Lord. There is nothing "worldly" about it.

There is something wordly about it. The question is, Is that bad? I can't speak for their love for the Lord, but we can certainly speak to their methodology. What does it say about our belief about the power of hte gospel when we feel it necessary to couch it in a medium that is so antiChristian? I think form matters.

I think it is sad when people can't disagree about ideas without attacking people like you have. Callign those with concerns "full of righteous indignation" should have never been said. If you like, contribute some ideas. Don't attack people. Realize that some of us are concerned about God's commands and God's holiness.

 

[Filmproducer]

I have no problem, FP. It is those who continue to try to justify the lust of the eyes, flesh and heart who have the problem.

It is those who insist that God is pleased with any kind of music as long as it has Christian lyrics that have the problem.

:laugh: Okay CCK whatever you say, although you will be hard pressed to prove that Christian rap and/or hip hop seeks to justify lust of the flesh, eyes, and heart.

The Cross Movement featuring Michelle Bonilla
Lord You Are (2x)

[Chorus]
Every time I think of You
When I think about the things You do
Oh it's not too hard to see it's not what You do but its who You are
Good, Holy, Pure, all of this and God You're so much more!
Doin' your will
I can just chill
Focus on who You are

(Lord You Are)
Kindness, Compassion, Timeless, Matchless, Divine in Your actions
(Lord You Are)
The Bedrock of trust
Sin stops on your block cause You're the head cop You're Just
(Lord You Are)
So Gracious and Merciful
Praise - You deserve it, so worthy of worship, Oh!
(Lord You Are)
We call You hope, we call You Peace and Love
You're all of these – You're all of the above

[Verse One]
The Bible told me holy are Your ways (Your ways)
Nobody stops or had to start Your days (Your days)
So I marvel at Your endlessness
And at the fact that You're righteous, You're m'quadesh
You got the victory and the glory is already Yours
And we can be sure Your character is morally pure, Lord
We can't help but adore You
Can't help but applaud You
Our soul saw You so now we can't help that it's all You

My God You're awesome, majestic
Your style's eclectic
Pure perfection, King unelected, Nexus
Your love stretches, elastic
Now I'm connected
No more sin and death
You're sin's antiseptic
I checked forensics and found that your power's intrinsic
And flows only for agendas that you've intended
Solid, the Rock, Sweeter than nectar
Three in one winner - Yeah, Trifecta

[Chorus]

[Verse Two]
I bless Your Name Father cause your majestic, time tested
Skillfully built in six and on the seventh You rested
Who else could make the moon glow and the sun shine
And have four different seasons flow all at one time?
You are the main attraction
The Who in what's happenin'
Universal Captain
No need for slumber
You're never slackin'
Nobody does what you do or could ever do what you've done
Most High, Supreme, King - The only One

If you would have never made the earth, Lord
That could never change your worth
And if there was never another soul to behold Your beauty
You'd be just amazing as You are, Truly
I'm gazing at the stars
Each one tells a story
Each one tells us of Your glory, tells us of Your might and Your power
May my praise be like a flower, but You made the flowers too
What can we give You?
Nothing's ours
This is yours!

[Chorus]

[Verse Three]
I'm not thinking about what most say
Lord I feel You in the utmost way
You're Divine
We know You're more cool than the Fonzie
You're shiny
Shekinah lights up all your Omni's
Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient
You're eminent in addition to intimate and sufficient
You're Logos and You're Abba, that's Poppa
You're living agua, that's Water
You're Potter
You're God and You're more than a brother has thought up

I'm electrified by your lightning likeness
Skip the Visine
No one that I've seen is like this
You're priceless
Nothing compares, nothing is fair enough to hold up to You
What could dare receive stares and glory and while receiving it
Inspire awe and command all obedience? (No one)
You're infinitely exceeding man's limits (plus)
You're transcendent (plus)
and endless
Lord, You are

[Chorus]