honest question to PB's and Reformed's

[kyredneck]

"The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed."

d-CON, do yourself a favor, step away from hoi polloi for a minute, READ AND MEDITATE on Heb 3-4 & 1 Cor 10, and reconsider the popular notion of 'crossing the river Jordan'.

Concerning Moses and Aaron, again the type holds true:

And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12

 

[salzer mtn]

"The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed."

d-CON, do yourself a favor, step away from hoi polloi for a minute, READ AND MEDITATE on Heb 3-4 & 1 Cor 10, and reconsider the popular notion of 'crossing the river Jordan'.

Concerning Moses and Aaron, again the type holds true:

And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12

So when do we get straight answers instead of all this mystic stuff ?

 

[kyredneck]

Salzer, do yourself a favor, step away from hoi polloi for a minute, READ AND MEDITATE on Heb 3-4 & 1 Cor 10, and reconsider the popular notion of 'no deeper than the letter' when you're explicitly told the spiritual rendering of the type given specifically TO US.

But if that's too 'mystical' for you, then don't bother.

 

[salzer mtn]

Salzer, do yourself a favor, step away from hoi polloi for a minute, READ AND MEDITATE on Heb 3-4 & 1 Cor 10, and reconsider the popular notion of 'no deeper than the letter' when you're explicitly told the spiritual rendering of the type given specifically TO US.

But if that's too 'mystical' for you, then don't bother.

I read those chapters and if one believed in falling from grace they could get plenty of ammunition, but I don't and I will admit that there once was a time when I did believe in falling from grace and these chapters were some of my favorite. This time I re-read them in the light of this thread topic and they took on a new meaning. I apologize for being to sharp in my above post.

 

[kyredneck]

I think what he is saying is that the Jews although redeemed and were brought out of the bondage of Egypt were disobedient and God caused them to wander around in the wilderness for forty years till that generation died and they didn't inherit the promised land which was the land of Israel, Moses and Aaron included. I think he is also making a comparison to the land of Israel as gospel salvation which everyone that has eternal salvation like the disobedient Jews, Moses and Aaron will not experience. The PB see's gospel salvation and eternal salvation as two different salvations.

You've got a pretty good handle on it. I'd rephrase this to read, 'The PB see's gospel salvation and eternal salvation as two aspects of salvation, one in which we're passive, the other in which we're active.' [Jn 1:12,13]

I read those chapters and if one believed in falling from grace they could get plenty of ammunition, but I don't and I will admit that there once was a time when I did believe in falling from grace and these chapters were some of my favorite. This time I re-read them in the light of this thread topic and they took on a new meaning. I apologize for being to sharp in my above post.

It's funny that it's some of the most staunch Arminians that actually have the correct application/view of crossing the river Jordan and entering into the rest of the promised land:

"Faith isn’t about reaping rewards in the hereafter; it’s about entering into the reign of God now."

"How is it that we never seem to be able to get out of the personal salvation vs. kingdom of God box?

Jesus Christ came to gather up the lost into the kingdom of God. The reign of God is not set against personal salvation. Personal salvation is not set against the kingdom. They are the same thing."

http://johnmeunier.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/saved-into-the-kingdom/

 

[kyredneck]

I read those chapters and if one believed in falling from grace they could get plenty of ammunition, but I don't and I will admit that there once was a time when I did believe in falling from grace and these chapters were some of my favorite. This time I re-read them in the light of this thread topic and they took on a new meaning. I apologize for being to sharp in my above post.

13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it. Mt 7

I believe the Exodus generation is the example The Prophet is using here. Almost everybody 'inserts' eternity in heaven or eternity in hell into the passage. Has to be 'heaven or hell', can't just mean consequences in this temporal realm, has to be eternal consequences.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it. Mt 7

I believe the Exodus generation is the example The Prophet is using here. Almost everybody 'inserts' eternity in heaven or eternity in hell into the passage. Has to be 'heaven or hell', can't just mean consequences in this temporal realm, has to be eternal consequences.

Ironic isn't it. Then there was light.:godisgood:

 

[kyredneck]

...However, the view which I read from one of my fellow PB's (not on this board) is that Limited Atonement is proven when someone obeys the gospel here in time.
That excludes anyone, even the elect (from what I understand about the comment), who does not hear the gospel, or obey the gospel.

Did the Balaam prophecy I referenced in the earlier post address this? (even after all Israel had done, unbelief included, their sins were still covered) Or am I just not understanding you?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ironic isn't it. Then there was light.:godisgood:

Then do you go further and conclude there is a family hood of believers amongst the elect as the Presbyterian Calvinists do?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The meaning of my question is, from what I am reading in this thread is there are people that will go to heaven un-aware they were bought with the blood of Christ and therefore lived all their lifetime as the world does having no interest in the things of God.

Salzer....my sister was an innocent...a girl that was brain damaged. She could not hear and understand the gospel. Should she be religated to hell for that disability?

 

[kyredneck]

Ironic isn't it. Then there was light.:godisgood:

Then do you go further and conclude there is a family hood of believers amongst the elect as the Presbyterian Calvinists do?

So, are you talking to yourself or asking someone a question?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So, are you talking to yourself or asking someone a question?

Maybe both wiseguy:tongue3:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But you Penoy & KYRED are opening up the essential differences between PB & Reformed doctrine, IE the differences between:

1) Temporal Salvation & Lordship Salvation .......and waiting for the other shoe......

2) Absolutism vs Partial Predestination.

Perhaps its to subtle for the naive to mentally put together cause Im not hearing any chatter......interesting.

 

[convicted1]

But you Penoy & KYRED are opening up the essential differences between PB & Reformed doctrine, IE the differences between:

1) Temporal Salvation & Lordship Salvation .......and waiting for the other shoe......

2) Absolutism vs Partial Predestination.

Perhaps its to subtle for the naive to mentally put together cause Im not hearing any chatter......interesting.

Do the PBs/OSBs hold to LS? I do.

Do most PBs/OSBs hold to absolutism ? I don't

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Salzer....my sister was an innocent...a girl that was brain damaged. She could not hear and understand the gospel. Should she be religated to hell for that disability?

No, and neither will mine, as she was born with Downs' Syndrome. To claim these will not know heaven because they can't understand the gospel is to deny who God is.

 

[kyredneck]

In my own words, the most prominent differences in doctrine between Primitive Baptists and Reformed are:

Most Reformed hold to gospel or means regeneration which occurs simultaneously upon hearing and belief of the gospel. PBs (and a few Reformed and Founders SB) hold to direct or immediate regeneration which can occur decades before hearing and belief of the gospel.

Reformed hold that all the elect will at some point in their lives make a formal profession of faith, PBs say that's not necessarily so.

Reformed tend toward absolutism, mainstream PBs toward overruling providence.

 

[convicted1]

I didn't know most Reformed held to gospel regeneration.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In my own words, the most prominent differences in doctrine between Primitive Baptists and Reformed are:

Most Reformed hold to gospel or means regeneration which occurs simultaneously upon hearing and belief of the gospel. PBs (and a few Reformed and Founders SB) hold to direct or immediate regeneration which can occur decades before hearing and belief of the gospel.

If the MEANS of regeneration is to hear, to accept & to study the bible, then my cerebral palsy sister is SOL. And so is every aborted child as well as children that die in childbirth. I consider that a horrible doctrine & I refuse to fall prey to it.

Reformed tend toward absolutism, mainstream PBs toward overruling providence.

Providence is what I see in the gospel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do the PBs/OSBs hold to LS? I do.

Do most PBs/OSBs hold to absolutism ? I don't

If you hold to Lordship Salvation, wouldn't you be more comfortable in a Reformed Baptist church?

 

[pinoybaptist]

No, and neither will mine, as she was born with Downs' Syndrome. To claim these will not know heaven because they can't understand the gospel is to deny who God is.

if I may borrow the Savior's words to the rich young ruler, my friend: "Thou art not far from the kingdom of God" (Mark 12:34,c).