honest question to PB's and Reformed's

[convicted1]

If you hold to Lordship Salvation, wouldn't you be more comfortable in a Reformed Baptist church?

I probably wouldn't, to be honest. But, if He led me there, I'd go licketty-split.

What is the "big ta-doo" about LS???

 

[pinoybaptist]

No, and neither will mine, as she was born with Downs' Syndrome. To claim these will not know heaven because they can't understand the gospel is to deny who God is.

but what about if alzheimer's sets in as an adult, or amnesia. take a close look at the following verses:

1 Cor. 15:1-2

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

it might be argued that they "accepted" Christ while they were in full possession of their faculties so the memory loss or impairment doesn't affect their salvation at all.
but the verse said: IF ye keep in memory.
uh, oh.
somebody's in trouble.

 

[convicted1]

but what about if alzheimer's sets in as an adult, or amnesia. take a close look at the following verses:

1 Cor. 15:1-2

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

it might be argued that they "accepted" Christ while they were in full possession of their faculties so the memory loss or impairment doesn't affect their salvation at all.
but the verse said: IF ye keep in memory.
uh, oh.
somebody's in trouble.

Just take comfort, Brother Tim, in knowing that not one sheep will be left outside the fold, and not one goat added to it.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't know. Logically a case can be made from what I said - that the atonement is limited to the "elect".

But a case can also be made from scripture which says the opposite, that it is available to all.

I think we can all agree that there is no limit to the power of the blood of Christ to take away sin both in kind and number.
This is why I shrink from "limited atonement" especially in light of John 3:16.

We are told to test the spirits.

If a person's life is producing the fruit of the Spirit (which the flesh cannot produce) then in my mind that outweighs the C&A controversy concerning whether one holds to limited or universal atonement.

If you held a gun to my head I would go with universal atonement but limited appropriation.


HankD

Would say that Election is based upon the will of God towards the sinners jesus died to atone for directly, and that those sinners will ahve the Holy Spirit apply the effectual garce of god rrequired to have spiritually dead persons become spiritually alive again in jesus!

UNTIL that point in time, ALL of us still sinners, dead in sins and tresgressions...

the elect know that were ONLY after getting saved by the Lord!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I probably wouldn't, to be honest. But, if He led me there, I'd go licketty-split.

What is the "big ta-doo" about LS???

Perhaps the question should be best posed to all the Calvinists that call us Hyper-Calvinists because of our Temporal Salvation stance.

 

[Yeshua1]

Salzer....my sister was an innocent...a girl that was brain damaged. She could not hear and understand the gospel. Should she be religated to hell for that disability?

ONLY if you think the Lord was not able to apply his grace towards her, and I think "ALL things are possible with God!"

 

[Yeshua1]

Perhaps the question should be best posed to all the Calvinists that call us Hyper-Calvinists because of our Temporal Salvation stance.

Well, all thsoe whom God chose to elect unto eternal life will hear and believe in this lifetime, right?

if they have not been born again while living, will not get so once physically dead!

Good news though is that every one Go dintends to get saved will somehow hear and respond!

And those such as babies aborted, infants, brain damaged etc will get saved by his grace and compassion, will not the judge of the whole earth do what is right?

 

[convicted1]

Perhaps the question should be best posed to all the Calvinists that call us Hyper-Calvinists because of our Temporal Salvation stance.

Please define "temporal salvation" for me. I honestly wanna know more about it, an honest and sincere question I ask...

 

[Yeshua1]

Please define "temporal salvation" for me. I honestly wanna know more about it, an honest and sincere question I ask...

don't PB hold that the elect will get saved regardless if they even hear the message, as already been redeemed by Cross, and that the main difference is that while all the elect go to heaven, only some believe in jesus here and now, and experience the Lord now in their lives?

 

[kyredneck]

Would say that Election is based upon the will of God towards the sinners jesus died to atone for directly, and that those sinners will ahve the Holy Spirit apply the effectual garce of god rrequired to have spiritually dead persons become spiritually alive again in jesus!

UNTIL that point in time, ALL of us still sinners, dead in sins and tresgressions...

the elect know that were ONLY after getting saved by the Lord!

Well, all thsoe whom God chose to elect unto eternal life will hear and believe in this lifetime, right?

if they have not been born again while living, will not get so once physically dead!

Good news though is that every one Go dintends to get saved will somehow hear and respond!

And those such as babies aborted, infants, brain damaged etc will get saved by his grace and compassion, will not the judge of the whole earth do what is right?

True to form, no spell check, not one iota of scripture to back it up.

don't PB hold that the elect will get saved regardless if they even hear the message, as already been redeemed by Cross, and that the main difference is that while all the elect go to heaven, only some believe in jesus here and now, and experience the Lord now in their lives?

Have you not read through the thread first and thought first before posting? Again, true to form.

 

[Yeshua1]

True to form, no spell check, not one iota of scripture to back it up.



Have you not read through the thread first and thought first before posting? Again, true to form.

Do you know ANY NT passage that even hints that one can get saved who has not received Jesus thru faith then?

Are the lost saved until they get saved then by God, wouldn't that be like preaching to the already saved to get them saved?

 

[kyredneck]

Do you know ANY NT passage that even hints that one can get saved who has not received Jesus thru faith then?

Are the lost saved until they get saved then by God, wouldn't that be like preaching to the already saved to get them saved?

Build your case from scripture that 'saved' means what you gom it up to mean.

From scripture, show sozo to be synonymous with the birth from above or the acquisition of eternal life.

Show from scripture that goats are transformed into sheep by the gospel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, and neither will mine, as she was born with Downs' Syndrome. To claim these will not know heaven because they can't understand the gospel is to deny who God is.

You then understand d our position.....good!:thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Please define "temporal salvation" for me. I honestly wanna know more about it, an honest and sincere question I ask...

You keep talking like Yoda and you can forget about it. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[kyredneck]

Please define "temporal salvation" for me. I honestly wanna know more about it, an honest and sincere question I ask...

You can mostly answer your own question by taking stock of how much better off you are now as compared to before you came to Christ.

IMHO, a clean conscience is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, benefit to be had from gospel obedience.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You can mostly answer your own question by taking stock of how much better off you are now as compared to before you came to Christ.

IMHO, a clean conscience is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, benefit to be had from gospel obedience.

Since I dont have Brother Kyreds elegance with the written word, maybe this will help.

Taken from: Questions and Answers Regarding Recent Primitive Baptist Tension

Written by Michael Gowens

Now, PB’s have characteristically held, not to “Lordship Salvation” but, to “Temporal Salvation”. That is to say, our position has been that there is a distinction to be made between Sonship and Discipleship—between being a child of God and being a follower of Jesus Christ. In the Lordship Salvation paradigm, regeneration and discipleship are so intertwined that one does not exist without the other. In 2002, a PB preacher in Virginia preached a sermon in which he labored to prove that “belief in Jesus Christ and eternal life are married—you cannot put asunder what God has joined together.” That’s the “Lordship Salvation” position. But Primitive Baptists do not believe that regeneration automatically produces discipleship. We believe that though the Lord has a big family, a people “out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people”, yet only “few” are walking the narrow way of discipleship. This practice of distinguishing between eternal salvation and time salvation, between union with Christ and communion with Him, between regeneration and gospel conversion, between preservation and perseverance, between predestination and providence, etc. is crucial to the correct interpretation of God’s word. God’s child may in fact live in disobedience to God’s revealed will for his life, and fail to glorify the Lord who redeemed him in this world, as the tragic cases of Lot , King Saul, Solomon, Samson, the Rich Young Ruler and others demonstrate. He may be deceived in his mind by false religion. Christians may in fact be carnal, allowing the old nature to dominate, as the Corinthian Church reveals (1 Cor. 3:1-4). But there are blessings to be had in obedience—that is, there is a salvation in the gospel from this present evil world that the prodigal child misses in this world.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Do you know ANY NT passage that even hints that one can get saved who has not received Jesus thru faith then?

Are the lost saved until they get saved then by God, wouldn't that be like preaching to the already saved to get them saved?

Rev. 7:9 - "After this I beheld , and, lo , a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

any more questions ?

 

[pinoybaptist]

.......
wouldn't that be like preaching to the already saved to get them saved?

that's exactly what the Lord told the 11 at mount olives, in the hearing of others, to "go out and preach the gospel.....they that believe and are baptized shall be saved". paraphrase: "okay, guys, I done what my Father told me to do which is to get all of His elect saved for eternity. Now go out there, find as many of them as you can, and teach them what I taught you, so they can get saved for time for my glory and my Father's glory that the heathen may know there is a God in Israel".

well, now, here' One who just rose out of the dead, after shedding His own blood for the eternal redemption of His people, which the whole counsel of God says He did successfully ( and I hope you believe that, too) and now He is telling His disciples to get those same people saved again ?

 

[salzer mtn]

Correct me if I'm wrong but PB's believe to enter into the kingdom of God is to join the PB church. So when you say a child of God is walking in disobedience and can be in false religion you are meaning churches other than PB.

 

[kyredneck]

Correct me if I'm wrong but PB's believe to enter into the kingdom of God is to join the PB church. So when you say a child of God is walking in disobedience and can be in false religion you are meaning churches other than PB.

OK. You're wrong.