Honest, Studied and Converted free willers?

Who said it was?

When? I don't care about our country's history...I'm talking about the minority of believers being calvinists, regardless of country.

When was "then"?

 

Hello John and welcome to the forum. I would like to challenge you to carefully think about what you said and make some logical conclusions. You said "Let's look at it as we as people should". And how should people look at truth - through man's eyes, or God's eyes? You said "God's [view] - He knew it was going to happen. Even makes it to happen." This is a true statement. Why shouldn't we look at it this way if it's the truth? And how are we ascending to God's omniscience if He's revealed it in scripture?

Man's will is not free to serve God until Jesus frees it.

John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

Can you supply a source?

 

Here's a portion of the history of the god Zeus.

Sounds a lot more like the god of [specific attack against certain believers], to me. He doesn't know everything (Gaia had to warn him about Metis). And he's certainly not all-powerful or sovereign (other gods are doing things without his knowledge, and someone splits open his head).

 

No one may be likened to Almighty God. And yes, HE foreordained everything for HIS own glory and pleasure. Reference: The Holy Bible, Old and New Testaments.

 

Actually, I studied it years ago.

But that was an uncalled-for slur? skypair has been repeatedly accusing Calvinists of worshiping the Greek god of fates, yet my joke was an uncalled-for slur?

Okay, if you say so.

 

Maybe moving on from Zeus would be good.

It interests me that some in groups on both sides feel "their" perception of God in this area is blasephemed by the position of the other?

Is that not somewhat a harsh accusation to make at one another?

Anyway.

What would your ideas of God repenting in Scripture mean? I was in Amos 7-8 a few weeks ago and it led me to study the repentance of God out a little.

Let me state, I do not believe God makes any mistakes, nor does He do wrong or get surprised etc.

Any takers?

 

When man repents, he changes his will.
When God repents, he wills a change. This is consistent with I Sam 15:29, which specifically says God is not a man that can change his mind.

 

But even Paul did not accuse them of blasephemy. But I do see where you are coming from.

I find the repentance of God an interesting study. In many areas the word for repentance just means sorrow. I believe that is the usage in Genesis 6:6. God did not get surprised by man's sin, nor did He wish He had never created us, but it sorrowed Him that men had become so depraved.

But other passages are not so clear cut. Passages such as Psalm 106:23 -
"Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy them."

Also in Amos 7 I do not think the case is so open and close.

I understand it to mean that God's apparent "change" in direction is actually in-keeping with His unchanging nature. God judges sin, but He forgives repentance and responds to intercessory prayer. So, to be consistent He responds to prayer of the intercessor and of the repentant.

So, it is really no change at all, but simply acting in-keeping with His own standards. If a man was unrepentant he would face judgment, but if he repented he would find mercy.

I know God does not strictly respond to anything, as He knows the end from the beginning.

And I guess it comes back again to the core issue of whether or not we have free will or no will or only the will to sin.

Anyway, I hope I am not blasepheming as that is not my intention or desire.

 

Do you "respond" to your wife? Do you have a relationship with her? Is that "dangerous?"

Is the church the "bride of Christ." What would you expect? a "Husband" who is intransigent? Who doesn't speak or hear?

skypair

 

I asked...when did God know what He knows.

You said...

In other words...

God know Paul would believe if God sent a voice from heaven to speak with Paul, and blind Paul with a bright light, and tell Paul with a loud voice how to repent and be saved, so then God 1st made Paul and then sent a voice from heaven to speak with Paul, and blind Paul with a bright light, and told Paul with a loud voice how to repent and be saved...and what do you know..Paul believed and was saved just as God saw.

And Wag from China? Well...God also know Wag from China would not believe God is God if...God would not send a voice from heaven and speak with Wag about salvation. So...God made Wag in a time in China when the Word was not preached...and never sent a voice from heaven to speak with Wag...and what do you know...Wag never took Christ as Lord...just as God foresaw.

Is this right?

God saw 1st...

then God made believers...
then God made non-believers

 

Thanks for replying. Please know that I simply tried to share what I’ve learned about predestination & God’s sovereignty. I didn’t intend to start a thread.
Amen, I agree with you [Attack on Scripture snipped]
Let me address what you said near the end of your reply. Here is what you wrote:
“Now do you believe Christ was the precious lamb of God that was foreordained to
be born at the right time and to die at the right time, and die in the hands of
the right people? Was this not by God himself that foreordained this? If so,
you must believe that just as foreordained before the foundation of the world is
something ture of Christ, it also holds true with us...if indeed the Bible
claims this. Will you change one and not the other? “

Undoubtedly Jesus was slain before the foundation of the Earth! God tells us in His Word, (KJV).
Man, I hope & pray my writing is clear! I don’t see how you could write that after what I said unless you are a prederest!

God is sovereign, observe: Da 4:35 (KJV) And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


How dare any of us think that things are predestined in or eye’s, of course they are by God in His eye’s!

Are we so foolish to think that we have some special knowledge by which we can “STAY HIS HAND”?
Surely angels fear to think that! And though they are much higher and mightier than us…

Our frailty: “THE POT CRYING OUT TO THE POTTER WHAT ‘MAKEST THOU?” & THE CREATION TO HIM FASHONETH HIM, “WHAT DOEST THOU”?
Isa 45:9 (KJV) Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?”

 

Let me say that no Greek god worship here, TALK ABOUT ACCUSITORY! CHECK IT OUT:
Thanks for replying. Please know that I simply tried to share what I’ve learned about predestination & God’s sovereignty. I didn’t intend to start a thread.
[Attack on Scriptures snipped]
Let me address what you said near the end of your reply. Here is what you wrote:
“Now do you believe Christ was the precious lamb of God that was foreordained to
be born at the right time and to die at the right time, and die in the hands of
the right people? Was this not by God himself that foreordained this? If so,
you must believe that just as foreordained before the foundation of the world is
something ture of Christ, it also holds true with us...if indeed the Bible
claims this. Will you change one and not the other? “

Undoubtedly Jesus was slain before the foundation of the Earth! God tells us in His Word, (KJV).
Man, I hope & pray my writing is clear! I don’t see how you could write that after what I said unless you are a prederest!

God is sovereign, observe: Da 4:35 (KJV) And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


How dare any of us think that things are predestined in or eye’s, of course they are by God in His eye’s!

Are we so foolish to think that we have some special knowledge by which we can “STAY HIS HAND”?
Surely angels fear to think that! And though they are much higher and mightier than us…

Our frailty: “THE POT CRYING OUT TO THE POTTER WHAT ‘MAKEST THOU?” & THE CREATION TO HIM FASHONETH HIM, “WHAT DOEST THOU”?
Isa 45:9 (KJV) Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?”