How can you preach the gospel if you believe in limited atonement?

[Van]

What is the false doctrine, Van. Spit it out. Tell us exactly what the false doctrine is. Then tell us exactly what the true doctrine is.

Asked and answered dozens of times.

 

[Particular]

Asked and answered dozens of times.

I have never read it in any of your comments since I have been at the BB.
Please point me to the specific answer and I will go read it.

What is the false doctrine, Van.
Tell us exactly what the false doctrine is.
Then tell us exactly what the true doctrine is.

 

[Van]

I have never read it in any of your comments since I have been at the BB.
Please point me to the specific answer and I will go read it.

What is the false doctrine, Van.
Tell us exactly what the false doctrine is.
Then tell us exactly what the true doctrine is.

Since this thread addresses "Limited Atonement" the L in the TULIP, and the Calvinist view is false doctrine, let's go over it one more time. Only the "P" (OSAS) is a valid doctrine, the rest of the TULI are all bogus.

Calvinism claims Christ died for the preselected elect, chosen before creation. The biblical doctrine is Christ died for all mankind, laying down His life as a ransom for all. 1 Tim. 2:6

 

[Particular]

Since this thread addresses "Limited Atonement" the L in the TULIP, and the Calvinist view is false doctrine, let's go over it one more time. Only the "P" (OSAS) is a valid doctrine, the rest of the TULI are all bogus.

Calvinism claims Christ died for the preselected elect, chosen before creation. The biblical doctrine is Christ died for all mankind, laying down His life as a ransom for all. 1 Tim. 2:6

So...in your view...
Total depravity = false doctrine
Unmerited favor = false doctrine
Limited atonement = false doctrine
Irresistible grace = false doctrine

Perseverance of the saints = true doctrine

Then tell us exactly what the true doctrine is, besides perseverance of the saints.

 

[Van]

So...in your view...
Total depravity = false doctrine
Unmerited favor = false doctrine
Limited atonement = false doctrine
Irresistible grace = false doctrine

Perseverance of the saints = true doctrine

Then tell us exactly what the true doctrine is, besides perseverance of the saints.

Total Spiritual Inability = false doctrine
Limited Spiritual Ability = true doctrine

Unconditional Election = false doctrine
Election for Salvation based on our faith = true doctrine

Limited Atonement = false doctrine
Reconciliation Available for All = true doctrine

Irresistible Grace = false doctrine
Resistible Grace = true doctrine

Possible Loss of Salvation = false doctrine
Once Saved, Always Saved = true doctrine.

 

[Reformed1689]

Resistible Grace = true doctrine

Since grace given to you is something that you actually have nothing to do with, how can it actually be resisted? I give you grace and not hold you responsible for something, you can't actually resist it. It is my decision, not yours.

 

[Calminian]

How can you preach the gospel if you believe in limited atonement? If you believe that Christ died for the chosen people only, than you probably can't say "Jesus died for you" to an unbeliever because you can't ensure that whether he is chosen by God or not

It's a non-issue regarding the Gospel. Calvinists have spread the Gospel around the world possibly more than any other group.

In essence, LA in their thinking merely means that not all will be saved, which is definitely relevant to the Gospel message. You can argue the doctrine, but I don't think you can legitimately claim it hinders the Gospel.

 

[Van]

Since grace given to you is something that you actually have nothing to do with, how can it actually be resisted? I give you grace and not hold you responsible for something, you can't actually resist it. It is my decision, not yours.

Not the Calvinist position, just another absurdity. Why do they call it irresistible, if all grace is irresistible? No one believes that.

 

[Reformed1689]

Not the Calvinist position, just another absurdity. Why do they call it irresistible, if all grace is irresistible? No one believes that.

Then please, by all means, explain how grace can be rejected. Not just saving grace, any grace. Explain how it is rejected.

 

[Van]

Then please, by all means, explain how grace can be rejected. Not just saving grace, any grace. Explain how it is rejected.

More nonsense, more explain why 2 is 2?

 

[Van]

How can you preach the gospel if you present false doctrine?
Total Spiritual Inability = false doctrine
Limited Spiritual Ability = true doctrine

Unconditional Election = false doctrine
Election for Salvation based on our faith = true doctrine

Limited Atonement = false doctrine
Reconciliation Available for All = true doctrine

Irresistible Grace = false doctrine
Resistible Grace = true doctrine

Possible Loss of Salvation = false doctrine
Once Saved, Always Saved = true doctrine.

 

[MB]

It's a non-issue regarding the Gospel. Calvinists have spread the Gospel around the world possibly more than any other group.

The gospel message Is that Christ came and died for the sins of the world and rose again on the third day. In which if we believe this is true we will be saved. Calvinist claim they are saved with out belief that they are saved in order to believe. they also believe you cannot be saved unless you are elect. . This is the gospel the good news of Salvation.

In essence, LA in their thinking merely means that not all will be saved, which is definitely relevant to the Gospel message. You can argue the doctrine, but I don't think you can legitimately claim it hinders the Gospel.

I claim that it does when they tell me that they can't tell people that they can be saved by simply believing. They claim it isn't scriptural. But it is all through the Bible all we have to do is believe

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[Particular]

Here is how I view your position.

Total Spiritual Inability = false doctrine
Limited Spiritual Ability = true doctrine

Human capacity to save oneself

Unconditional Election = false doctrine
Election for Salvation based on our faith = true doctrine

Human capacity to save oneself.

Limited Atonement = false doctrine
Reconciliation Available for All = true doctrine

Human capacity to save oneself.

Irresistible Grace = false doctrine
Resistible Grace = true doctrine

Human capacity to thwart God's will.

Possible Loss of Salvation = false doctrine
Once Saved, Always Saved = true doctrine.

Question of how one is saved. If your other four views, which you believe in, are true then you cannot logically hold to Once Saved Always Saved since all the other theological positions are established by human effort. Therefore this last position must also rely upon human effort. Since we know that human will is fickle, we know that humans who claimed faith by their own effort also reject faith by their own effort. This means that you must believe loss of salvation is possible or you openly live with a contradiction in your view.
Do you choose to openly live with a blatant contradiction or do you shore up the first four views with the logical view that loss of salvation is possible? If you accept the loss of salvation as possible you are a full blown Arminian and would likely love worshipping at a Nazarene or Weslyan church.

 

[Reformed1689]

More nonsense, more explain why 2 is 2?

Van do you ever actually engage an argument or just spout off stupidity all the time?

 

[Van]

Here is how I view your position.
Human capacity to save oneself
Human capacity to save oneself.
Human capacity to save oneself.
Human capacity to thwart God's will.
Question of how one is saved. If your other four views, which you believe in, are true then you cannot logically hold to Once Saved Always Saved since all the other theological positions are established by human effort. Therefore this last position must also rely upon human effort. Since we know that human will is fickle, we know that humans who claimed faith by their own effort also reject faith by their own effort. This means that you must believe loss of salvation is possible or you openly live with a contradiction in your view.
Do you choose to openly live with a blatant contradiction or do you shore up the first four views with the logical view that loss of salvation is possible? If you accept the loss of salvation as possible you are a full blown Arminian and would likely love worshipping at a Nazarene or Weslyan church.

Utter nonsense, the same falsehoods regurgitated once again.

Who puts us in Christ? God does. Do we have the power to overcome the will of God? Nope. Therefore the above post is utter nonsense.

 

[Reformed1689]

Who puts us in Christ? God does. Do we have the power to overcome the will of God? Nope. Therefore the above post is utter nonsense.

Wait, so you are Calvinist now?

 

[Van]

Van do you ever actually engage an argument or just spout off stupidity all the time?

Addressing the poster rather than the position, thus waving the white flag of surrender.

 

[Van]

Wait, so you are Calvinist now?

Yet another attempt to post nonsense.

 

[Reformed1689]

Addressing the poster rather than the position, thus waving the white flag of surrender.

Wrong

 

[Reformed1689]

Yet another attempt to post nonsense.

Really? Because you just described the Calvinist position and posted it as truth. You are all over the place.