How can you preach the gospel if you believe in limited atonement?

[Particular]

Utter nonsense, the same falsehoods regurgitated once again.

Who puts us in Christ? God does. Do we have the power to overcome the will of God? Nope. Therefore the above post is utter nonsense.

Therefore your first four positions are nonsense.
Your first four positions contradict and conflict with your last position.
Obviously it doesn't bother you or perhaps it's a blind spot you just can't see, but your position begs many questions.

 

[Van]

Wrong

Anyone who addresses the poster rather than the position is waving the white flag of surrender.

 

[Van]

Really? Because you just described the Calvinist position and posted it as truth. You are all over the place.

Pay no attention to those who misrepresent the views of others.

 

[Van]

Therefore your first four positions are nonsense.
Your first four positions contradict and conflict with your last position.
Obviously it doesn't bother you or perhaps it's a blind spot you just can't see, but your position begs many questions.

Utter nonsense, your doctrine is as bogus as a three dollar bill. Again and again I post verse after verse supporting the biblical view and you wave the white flag of blindspotting, etc.

 

[Reformed1689]

Anyone who addresses the poster rather than the position is waving the white flag of surrender.

I'm sure you believe that.

 

[Van]

I'm sure you believe that.

Yet another you, you, you post addressing the poster and not the position.

Calvinist preacher: Jesus may have died for your sins, He died for the sins of those chosen unconditionally before creation. There is nothing you can do to alter the predestined outcome of your life, or the lives of your loved ones. They were either saved or condemned from all eternity for all eternity.

Of course for those of us who believe God desires all men to be saved and Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, we think Calvinism offers a bogus view of the gospel.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yet another you, you, you post addressing the poster and not the position.

Calvinist preacher: Jesus may have died for your sins, He died for the sins of those chosen unconditionally before creation. There is nothing you can do to alter the predestined outcome of your life, or the lives of your loved ones. They were either saved or condemned from all eternity for all eternity.

Of course for those of us who believe God desires all men to be saved and Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, we think Calvinism offers a bogus view of the gospel.

Ok. One problem. I don't preach that Jesus may have died for your sins. I preach that you need to repent and confess Jesus as Lord that He died for those that believe on His name and confess Him as Lord.

If Christ laid down his life a ransom for all, meaning every individual person, then his payment was not enough. He was insufficient since not all or saved. OR universalism is correct.

 

[Van]

Ok. One problem. I don't preach that Jesus may have died for your sins. I preach that you need to repent and confess Jesus as Lord that He died for those that believe on His name and confess Him as Lord.

If Christ laid down his life a ransom for all, meaning every individual person, then his payment was not enough. He was insufficient since not all or saved. OR universalism is correct.

More nonsense. Hiding your doctrine is not in accordance with Jesus's teachings about meaning what we say. Next, we get "if Christ laid down his life as a ransom for all" utterly denying scripture which conflicts with the false doctrine of Calvinism. Christ accomplished His purpose on the cross, and His sacrifice is sufficient to say everyone and anyone God places into Christ. Next, the false charge that this view supports universalism, which it does not. But look how false claim changes the subject from the false doctrine of Limited Atonement.

 

[Reformed1689]

More nonsense. Hiding your doctrine is not in accordance with Jesus's teachings about meaning what we say. Next, we get "if Christ laid down his life as a ransom for all" utterly denying scripture which conflicts with the false doctrine of Calvinism. Christ accomplished His purpose on the cross, and His sacrifice is sufficient to say everyone and anyone God places into Christ. Next, the false charge that this view supports universalism, which it does not. But look how false claim changes the subject from the false doctrine of Limited Atonement.

No, no, and again, no.

What do you mean hiding doctrine? I didn't hide any doctrine. Read it again.

And no, did not deny Scripture. I denied your interpretation of it. There is a big difference there.

Yes, the sacrifice was sufficient for all, but was not for all. Also a major distinction. God only places his elect into Christ. They have already been chosen.

And the universalism charge isn't a false charge. That is the logical conclusion of Christ paying a ransom for every individual person.

 

[Particular]

More nonsense. Hiding your doctrine is not in accordance with Jesus's teachings about meaning what we say. Next, we get "if Christ laid down his life as a ransom for all" utterly denying scripture which conflicts with the false doctrine of Calvinism. Christ accomplished His purpose on the cross, and His sacrifice is sufficient to say everyone and anyone God places into Christ. Next, the false charge that this view supports universalism, which it does not. But look how false claim changes the subject from the false doctrine of Limited Atonement.

Van, it is obvious that you cannot accept the contradictions in your position. It seems that you have picked the views that you want from God, regardless of whether God actually speaks that view. I have read enough comments between you and others to know your pet verses have been explained to you. I have addressed your five views in this thread.
You have stated your position. I disagree with your position. We will not find a compromise on the means of salvation.

 

[Van]

No, no, and again, no.

What do you mean hiding doctrine? I didn't hide any doctrine. Read it again.

And no, did not deny Scripture. I denied your interpretation of it. There is a big difference there.

Yes, the sacrifice was sufficient for all, but was not for all. Also a major distinction. God only places his elect into Christ. They have already been chosen.

And the universalism charge isn't a false charge. That is the logical conclusion of Christ paying a ransom for every individual person.

1) Believing like a Calvinist but preaching like an Arminian is hiding Calvinism.
2) Denying ransom for all means ransom for all is denying scripture.
3) Christ died for all mankind, becoming the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
4) Yes, God places those chosen through faith in the truth into Christ.
5) Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to provide propitiation for everyone God places in Christ. This view does not require God to place everyone in Christ, that claim is utter nonsense.

 

[Van]

Van, it is obvious that you cannot accept the contradictions in your position. It seems that you have picked the views that you want from God, regardless of whether God actually speaks that view. I have read enough comments between you and others to know your pet verses have been explained to you. I have addressed your five views in this thread.
You have stated your position. I disagree with your position. We will not find a compromise on the means of salvation.

1) You falsely claim "contradictions" yet never identify them? False charge!
2) Every position presented is supported explicitly by passages of scripture.
3) You have not presented any evidence that any of the true doctrines present are mistaken.
4) Agreed, I will not compromise scripture.

Calvinist preacher: Jesus may have died for your sins, He died for the sins of those chosen unconditionally before creation. There is nothing you can do to alter the predestined outcome of your life, or the lives of your loved ones. They were either saved or condemned from all eternity for all eternity.

Of course for those of us who believe God desires all men to be saved and Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, we think Calvinism offers a bogus view of the gospel.

 

[Reformed1689]

1) Believing like a Calvinist but preaching like an Arminian is hiding Calvinism.

You need to read what I wrote again. I did preach like a Calvinist.

2) Denying ransom for all means ransom for all is denying scripture.

You need to re-think this one.

3) Christ died for all mankind, becoming the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

I agree. However, you and I define terms differently.

5) Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to provide propitiation for everyone God places in Christ. This view does not require God to place everyone in Christ, that claim is utter nonsense.

And you just proved you are wavy on your doctrine. You just mixed Calvinism and Arminianism in the same statement. I agree, Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to provide salvation for those God chose to place in Christ.

 

[Van]

. I agree, Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to provide salvation for those God chose to place in Christ.

Fine, hopefully you will accept my other views someday too.

 

[Reformed1689]

Fine, hopefully you will accept my other views someday too.

I can't accept them Van because I believe they are not in harmony with Scripture.

 

[Van]

I can't accept them Van because I believe they are not in harmony with Scripture.

Live and learn

 

[Reformed1689]

Live and learn

You do the same.

 

[Reformed1689]

Live and learn

I should have been more specific, I can't because they are not in harmony with Scripture.

 

[Van]

You do the same.

Constantly

 

[Van]

I should have been more specific, I can't because they are not in harmony with Scripture.

The opposite is true, my positions are in harmony with all scripture, yours are precluded by scripture.

Christ died for all mankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved.