preacher4truth
Active Member
Probably would be a waste of time to call his bishop -- he probably agrees with it himself. Political correctness is rampant in churches, they believe it is the gospel.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
How Catholics Think
- Thread starter Zaac
- Start date
- Status
Probably would be a waste of time to call his bishop -- he probably agrees with it himself. Political correctness is rampant in churches, they believe it is the gospel.
And who did he say that to? :laugh:
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Then you haven't met very many Catholics.
I have. Pity you didn't.
Some Catholics do. Some Protestants do, too.
No doctrine saves. I can't believe in the SBC doctrine and be saved. I have to believe in Jesus Christ, in His sacrifice, death, burial and resurrection. So does anyone who seeks salvation. I believe in the SBC doctrine not to be saved but because it aligns most closely with what I find the Bible teaches. Lots of believers worship in a church where the doctrine is off-balance and wrong. Because they belong to those churches doesn't make them non-believers. It might make the missionaries to their brothers and sisters. You probably didn't bother to think of that, did you? For you to claim that "I have never met a Catholic that knew the gospel" is a ludicrously narrow-minded statement. I know several. Come to Kansas City. I'll introduce you to them.
That would be even more laughably ludicrous than the "never met" statement if it wasn't overflowing with personal prejudice. Do you realize you just compared the doctrine of a church that has the Holy Bible as its one and only base text of being equal to the Muslim "faith" which denies that same book?
This is why I shouldn't ever join in threads like this one. The unChristlike hatred of the Catholic denomination, a hatred without grounds, just ticks me off. Anyone who thinks Catholics do not believe in Christ, and Christ alone, for salvation should sit down and talk to a Catholic and find out what they believe. If you find they don't believe the gospel, show them the truth. Over half the time, you will find they do believe the gospel, and don't consider works necessary for God's grace, but necessary because they love Him. But then again, over half the time, you'll find Protestants break down across lines of belief in the exact same way. You're missing a great blessing shunning Catholics because you have listened to the lies of narrow-minded people for far too log. Done here.
Last edited by a moderator:
preacher4truth
Active Member
TND,
It's unfortunate that you get so angry over this. Secondly I have to say that the only real 'hate' I am feeling is from you bro amd I am simply being honest. No one on here is expressing hate for this system, only facts (for the most part and for most persons involved).
It is not what catholics (or any other denom for that matter) say they believe, it is what they actually practice. The catholic system is works based, and they in fact practice that system while telling you another story, not to mention the practice of other things that are unscriptural.
If they truly believe it is Christ alone, faith alone (something which Luther brought in which was readily rejected by the system of catholicism and has not been recanted) then they would or should get out of that false system. Would you join the catholics? It sounds solid so perhaps you can join them since you're saying they are in fact truth, and in fact christianity. I think you know better than that.
How are these 'missionaries' to their 'brothers and sisters' when you broad brush the system as true christianity? Double standard?
I don't buy that those who 'remain' are there to rescue others from a system that you and they endorse as truth and christianity. That is a misnomer, a false dichotomy and purely subjective nonsense. If they are there to help others out, then that right there is admittance that the system is in fact false, and it is in fact a works based false gospel that commits a huge disgrace and places shame upon the finished work of Christ.
If I am construed as being hate filled and unlike Christ for exposing the fallacies of RC, then so be it. Christ did the same things when exposing error, so to say doing so is unChrist like is also another misnomer.
Agree with most of what you wrote, except the last sentence above. The Qur'an actually encourages Muslims to read the Bible, and speaks positively of it. I do not know the Surahs off hand, but there are two or three that do speak positively of the Bible.
Ah, found it:
• “Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light” (Surah 5:44a; 2:87).
• “And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)” (Surah 5:46).
• “It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)” (Surah 3:3).
• “If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers” (Surah 10:94-95; 16:43).
preacher4truth
Active Member
Simply because ANY denom uses the Bible as it's only text doesn't make said a church or true. In addition to this concerning the RC, they place tradition above the Word, so to say they use it in such a manner as their 'only' source is deceptive, misconstrued, incomplete and untrue. In fact, the RCC denies Scripture with its traditions.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Read it, yes, but they don't encourage the followers of Muhammed to believe the Bible.
The irony here is that you have cited several passage from the Qur'an that attempt to establish the "truth" being revealed to Muhammed by comparing it to what "came before," i.e., the Bible. Muhammed allegedly doubted the "words and visions" he was getting were from "god." "Allah" supposedly told Muhammed that he was getting inspired words from "god" just as the writers of the Bible had been given inspired words. Rather than give credence to God's (real) word, it claims to be superseding that work.
I had to go to GotQuestions.org to make sure they were saying these passages affirm the Bible, and I guess their conclusions are correct, in a roundabout way. But Muhammed was supposedly being told he was being given inspiration that was "better" than the Bible.
Last edited by a moderator:
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
I appreciate the concern, P4T, but I'm not angry. Just disgusted with my fellow Christians who attack Catholicism without really knowing what the people believe.
True. My Catholic friends practice faith by grace, and most Catholics I know outdo Protestants in good works. Like some Protestants, they do so out of grudging rote, not out of inspiration from God. I know Catholics who think the works keep them in God's grace. I know far more Catholics that do the good works because the love for God drives them to do so.
As though Protestant denominations don't do the same?
Or as a friend of mine who is a Kansas City TV meteorologist once told me, "If I come across the street to your church, then who will keep the truth before the people in my church?"
I'm not going to argue this anymore. For those of you who universally and unequivocally denigrate the Catholic Church and all Catholics, reconsider, please, or remain in your own sin. If you choose the latter, I won't listen to it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Zaac
Well-Known Member
We often do the same thing with our sin. But back to the Catholics. I think the Catholic Church is much like the Muslims. A few years back, they decided they were going to show us a "new, loving, peaceful face of Islam" and they literally started to market themselves that way so that we wouldn't think they were all extremists.
Catholicism has pretty much done the same thing by literally denying a lot of their false practices in public while holding firmly to them behind the scenes.
When the Vatican directives are setting the example to coverup and hide anything that doesn't look favorable even though it's still going on behind the scenes, the tone has been set for local congregations to do the same in denying that they do what they actually do.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
There's something about quoting that book on a Christian board that's always bothered me.
If this is the Bishop Im thinking of, he put a edict in place to not allow Joe Biden (originally from Scranton) to be served Holy Communion. So my point is, some of these RC Church people are very serious about the Faith, while others are lax & Liberal (L&L) & politically correct.
I should dispatch Thinking Stuff over to him in order to have a conversation with my uncle..... God knows how much time he has left, so he is listening at least. In fact , a visit by TS would be a very good thing....my uncle & his two sons are all RC's.
Here is a Shape Note Song Ive been thinking long & hard on lately......The words are on the screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCdqsITlcvk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCdqsITlcvk
preacher4truth
Active Member
Well I feel bad for your uncle.
We are also aware that getting him straightened out morally won't amount to a thing in eternity as one must be regenerate. That and we know 'a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still'.
preacher4truth
Active Member
TND,
Thanks for the response. Bro, we do know what they believe, many things stated in this thread are indeed true about RCC. The attack on RCC is on their false doctrines and rejection of the solas, of which they've never recanted.
Brother, your limited knowledge of some catholics you are using to broad brush the system into a good light isn't accurate, it only points to that perhaps some are born again. Your example is stretching the reality, and I believe it is doing so based upon bias for your friends. It is not an accurate reflection of the false system of RC.
The well know facts of their claim to being the only true church, rejection of the completed work of Christ ALONE as sufficient and many other things are the true teachings of that system.
I've already affirmed this. So, what is the point if both have issues? Protestantism preaches Christ as the ONLY way and His work solely sufficient. RCC does not do this, and if you say otherwise, which would be untrue, then your friends 'missionary' efforts are unfounded and is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
That sounds a little heady and arrogant to me.
No one has done the above to the extent you are making it out to be. To denigrate false teaching is one thing, and that I have done, and I don't honestly believe you think doing so is sin. In other words, we should stick to the facts of what is said and not go to the extreme accusation that you are using i.e. 'denigrating all'. None of that has a thing to do with our discussion and I believe you leave things off that you don't want to face that have been discussed bro.
Furthermore, I see the false teachings of RC as dangerous if not more dangerous than that of JW's and other false systems mainly due to the fact that persons believe it to be orthodox when it simply is not.
Learning what their book says is helpful in witnessing to them. Most of them do not even know what their book says- kind of like many so-called Christians who have never read the Bible through once.
Even the Apostle Paul could quote from pagans in the Scripture.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Bad theology ...
The lyrics:
And must I be to judgment bro’t,
And answer in that day
For ev’ry vain and idle tho’t
And ev’ry word I say?
Chorus: We are passing away, we are passing away,
We are passing away to that great judgment day.
Yes, ev’ry secret of my heart
Shall shortly be made known;
And I receive my just desert
For all that I have done.
(Chorus)
How careful, then, ought I to be,
With what religious fear,
Who such a strict account must give
For my behavior here.
(Chorus)
And answer in that day
For ev’ry vain and idle tho’t
And ev’ry word I say?
Chorus: We are passing away, we are passing away,
We are passing away to that great judgment day.
Yes, ev’ry secret of my heart
Shall shortly be made known;
And I receive my just desert
For all that I have done.
(Chorus)
How careful, then, ought I to be,
With what religious fear,
Who such a strict account must give
For my behavior here.
(Chorus)
Christians are not judged by our thoughts, words and deeds as the song suggests. John Watson and Charles Wesley, (brother of John) wrote the song in 1783. They believed one could lose one's salvation, and that is reflected in the song. You're right to "think long and hard" about it, EWF. Many Christians, Catholic and Protestant, think the theology of this song is correct. Many among those same groups do not.
I know of a Muslim that memorized the entire NT which of course includes the gospels.
Does that mean he heard "the gospel." No, of course not.
Does that mean he is saved? Hardly, he is a Muslim.
Just because Scripture is read it doesn't mean he has heard the "the gospel."
Even the most apostate churches recite the "Lord's Prayer" which is from "the gospels," but that doesn't mean they heard the gospel.
Let's use our common sense here.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
preacher4truth
Active Member
There is nothing wrong with the theology of that song, but in the way you are interpreting it.
Romans 14:12 &c. (Not an account to determine salvation, but an account of our walk here in Christ). That is the way I see this song.
- Status