Duh...really. but do you get why this is being sung....is it cause they are Weslyians ....or is there something deeper going on?
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How Catholics Think
- Thread starter Zaac
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Duh...really. but do you get why this is being sung....is it cause they are Weslyians ....or is there something deeper going on?
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Then why be "fearful"? (See lyrics)
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I get to visit a lot of majority Muslim areas and it really helps to know what the Koran says because it helps to understand their thinking.
But there's just something about actually posting the words. I've just seen too many times where people who lurk will just read part of threads and it makes for a mess.
But otherwise, it just personally, never sat well with me.
First, I live in Canada, a nation that is over 50% Catholic. I have probably met more Catholics than you have.
Second, I grew up in a Catholic family. My entire extended family is Catholic. That is a lot of Catholics to witness to in just my family (seven brothers and sisters and all their relatives).
Third, I am a missionary and do a lot of traveling. I have been to other areas where to population is predominantly Catholic.
Please don't assume that you have more experience with Catholics than I have. I doubt it.
What kind of Catholic church preaches the gospel? It would go against their catechism. Let me ask you: "Have you been born again?" If so, when?
The RCC believes a person is born again when they are baptized as an infant--baptismal regeneration. That is not salvation by grace through faith is it. That is what the catechism teaches. You cannot believe the catechism and be saved at the same time. You cannot be a believing Catholic and be saved at the same time. The two belief systems are diametrically opposed to each other.
Are you born again? By baptism or by the Holy Spirit? The Catholic way, or the way the Bible teaches? It can't be both.
I am not a Protestant; I am a Baptist, and as such the Bible is my final authority in all matters of faith and practice. On that I stand.
All Baptists believe that the Bible is their final authority. It is a Baptist distinctive.
Having established that, we also believe that salvation is by grace through faith.
No Catholic believes that according to the Catechism. The Catechism believes it is through the keeping of the seven sacraments, and especially through the sacrament of baptism. Learn what the Catechism says.
Heresy!
Jesus saves! That is doctrine.
It is impossible to reconcile RCC doctrine to the Bible. They contradict each other. Shortly after I was saved I was reading my Bible and realized how much the RCC and the Bible contradicted each other. I knew I had to make a choice. I chose the Bible over the RCC, and have been thankful ever since. This was before I ever came in contact with any kind of Baptist church.
Then they need to leave that church don't they?
"Come out from among the and be ye separate saith the Lord."
"How can two walk together except they be agreed?"
"Be not unequally yoked together."
The Bible never teaches to infiltrate but always to separate.
Separate from churches that teach wrong doctrine. The local church is for the building up and edification of the believers. Missionary activity is done outside of the church.
A missionary to a Muslim land does not go into the mosques and evangelize there, does he?
I have been to Kansas City many times. I have traveled from the Pacific to the Atlantic visiting about 60% of all the states in America. How many have you visited? I have never met a saved Catholic. Once saved they get out of the Catholic church. You can't remain in the Catholic church and be obedient to the Lord. You can't remain in the Catholic church and continue to believe what Catholics believe.
I would never again enter a Catholic church because it would look like I would be endorsing it. Secondly, I would be serving no purpose. My witness to Catholics is in their homes, where they are comfortable; not in their churches--no common sense on your part is there?
Mormons use the Bible.
J.W.'s use the Bible.
And yes, Muslims consider the Bible as holy scriptures also.
The Muslims are commanded to read and believe in the books of Moses, the books of the prophets, the psalms, and the gospels. That is a lot of Scripture to work with when witnessing to a Muslim.
The Catholic Church is not a Christian Church, never was a Christian Church, never will be a Christian Church. Read the commentaries of the early half of the 20th century and then earlier than that. Almost every Protestant commentary you pick up will tell you that the Catholic Pope is either the antichrist or the false prophet.
My family is Catholic. I don't hate them. I love them. It is the doctrine that I both hate and despise. It sends people to the pit of hell! That is not being unChristlike.
I grew up in Catholicism. I know what they believe.
A gospel of works is no gospel at all.
Baptismal regeneration is one of the greatest heresies ever espoused by Christendom.
Transubstantiation is another great heresy espoused by the RCC.
A true believer cannot truly believe such heresies.
I don't shun them; I witness to them.
I am not the one who has listened to lies. That much is obvious.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Bro,
I did read the lyrics.
Php. 2:12 -- Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling perhaps?
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
All of 'em.
I'm deliberately ignoring all the hooey you've spoken throughout the rest of this post, the deliberately divisive nonsense you spout, and concentrating on these two quotes. I could have never left Kansas City (or my hometown in the north part of the state) and if I had met one saved Catholic -- and I've met far more than that -- I disprove the belief you have adopted through a complex willful blindness you choose to call truth. The real truth is, you've met a lot of saved Catholics and chosen to believe they are not brothers and sisters in Christ. A church, a doctrine, a dogma, a catechism -- none of these things make a believer, nor does the study of any of those things make them an unbeliever. Christ, His shed blood, His death, burial and resurrection and faith that allows someone to proclaim Him Savior and Lord -- that is what makes a believer.
Romans 9, NASB
9 ... f you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
9 ... f you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
If anything of doctrine, dogma, writ, rote or other extraneous "stuff" canceled out the truth of this verse, Paul would have written the qualifier immediately afterward. He didn't. Deal with it.
It is obvious you have a bias that you must overcome. I hope I get to peak over your shoulder the day we meet in heaven and you are confronted by all the believing Catholics you have rejected in this life. Fortunately, they, and God, will forgive you, as do I now. We'll both have a good laugh over it. God bless.
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Sorry, thisnumbersdisconnected , but anyone who claims to be truly born again, understands Scripture, and has read the RC catechism, will instantly KNOW that any RC who follows that church's teachings CANNOT be a Christian. So much goes against Scripture it's unbelievable! Beliefs about "Mary" (Immaculate Conception, Assumption into Heaven, Perpetual Virgin, Queen of Heaven, etc.) are enough to drive any true Christian away from the RCC. Simple as that.......no need to try and white wash it. Catholics are NOT Christians, as much as you'd like it to be so. It just doesn't work.
Frankly, I get very suspect of someone claiming to be a Baptist, born again, Christian, who supports the RCC. Something's just not right about that.
Frankly, I get very suspect of someone claiming to be a Baptist, born again, Christian, who supports the RCC. Something's just not right about that.
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thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
How can you people be so blind as to think that someone who attends a Catholic Church does not have to adhere to Catholic doctrine to worship there? I know priests who don't buy the Catholic doctine, and their ministry reflects it.
The truth is, except for in Boston and St. Louis, and many of the Hispanic-led Catholic churches, many if not most do not buy into the doctrine. Even in those locations, there are many believers in the Catholic churches. I know them. We talk about it, discuss it, dissect it.
The truth is, many of them don't feel comfortable leaving the church because of the ritual of the Mass.
The truth is, they are not the only ones who attend churches that have extraneous beliefs to the gospel that have nothing to do with salvation.
If anyone can claim the truth of Romans 10:9, they are saved. Again, deal with it. Outta here.
Sorry. I have no intention of living up to your level of prejudice and abhorrence.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I do know of several people who were brought up in the Catholic Church, but who were saved outside the Catholic Church yet still attend the Catholic Church because it's a cultural thing. Like a Jewish person coming to faith in Christ. They are a Christian but still culturally Jewish.
This is interesting. How does the Vatican deal with such churches since they are not autonomous?
To be carnal is (in my view) to be committing the most grevious sin....of "Non -Belief " & to be a non believer suggests not having been saved. Then you (should have much) to fear :smilewinkgrin:
I have considered returning to the Catholic church in order to integrate with them and dispelled the mistakes that they falsely believe. By setting up Bible study classes, I can pick off false doctrine by pointing out scripture. I'm really considering doing that.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Don't do it. I would imagine doing so would involve a level of deception and venturing down a road which you probably don't want to go.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Not sure how the priest of the church you choose would feel about that, but I think that's a great idea.
One last post here, and then I'll bow out of this thread, given its caused a lot of pique and division. What I have been trying to say is very well said in a paragraph from a GotQuestions.org posting asking, "Are Catholics saved?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/catholicism.html
In regards to the question “Are Catholics saved?”, this is a more difficult question to answer. It is impossible to give a universal statement on the salvation of all members of any denomination of Christianity. Not ALL Baptists are saved. Not ALL Presbyterians are saved. Not ALL Lutherans are saved. Salvation is determined by personal faith in Jesus alone for salvation,not by titles or denominational identification [Emphasis added]. Despite the unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church, there are genuine believers who attend Roman Catholic churches. There are many Roman Catholics who have genuinely placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. However, these Catholic Christians are believers despite what the Catholic Church teaches, not because of what it teaches. To varying degrees, the Catholic Church teaches from the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches. The Bible has an impact whenever it is proclaimed (Isaiah 55:11). Catholic Christians remain in the Catholic Church out of ignorance of what the Catholic Church truly stands for, out of family tradition and peer pressure, or out of a desire to reach other Catholics for Christ. [Emphasis added][/I]
In regards to the question “Are Catholics saved?”, this is a more difficult question to answer. It is impossible to give a universal statement on the salvation of all members of any denomination of Christianity. Not ALL Baptists are saved. Not ALL Presbyterians are saved. Not ALL Lutherans are saved. Salvation is determined by personal faith in Jesus alone for salvation,not by titles or denominational identification [Emphasis added]. Despite the unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church, there are genuine believers who attend Roman Catholic churches. There are many Roman Catholics who have genuinely placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. However, these Catholic Christians are believers despite what the Catholic Church teaches, not because of what it teaches. To varying degrees, the Catholic Church teaches from the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches. The Bible has an impact whenever it is proclaimed (Isaiah 55:11). Catholic Christians remain in the Catholic Church out of ignorance of what the Catholic Church truly stands for, out of family tradition and peer pressure, or out of a desire to reach other Catholics for Christ. [Emphasis added][/I]
At the same time, I acknowledge the false teachings of Catholic doctrine, such as apostolic succession, worship of saints or Mary, prayer to saints or Mary, the pope / papacy, infant baptism, transubstantiation, plenary indulgences, the sacramental system, and purgatory. Still, I stand by the paragraph above this one, due to the fact that attendance of any church is not a declaration of adherence to the doctrine of that church. It is true in any church, not just the Catholic Church, and those of you who want to vilify Catholics and their church might need to take a close look at your own church and examine its doctrines and what you believe as well. Just a heads up.
preacher4truth
Active Member
I totally agree with what you say above. :thumbsup:
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Usually, they move the priest to an administrative job so he can't "pollute" the minds of the parishioners.
What B4L doesn't realize, and frankly I thought you would, is that I have not at any point supported Catholic doctrine, only Catholic believers. Now, outta here for certain.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Good. How about the fact that through all those false doctrines you mention that they also teach sola gratia, sola fide and Solus Christus are not sufficient in and of themselves and that it is the one true holy church and there is no salvation outside of her?
preacher4truth
Active Member
It's no different than you claiming we are saying all Catholics are lost, which is untrue.
Their system is frankly dissident. Their claim to being the only truth and outside of them all are lost is their stance, yet you avoid facing this and many other things they will not recant. Furthermore, one can say all they want that they believe Solus Christus, but when they deny this by partaking of the church traditions which totally deny this, totally deny Scripture, and make mockery of Christ and His finished work, then something is sorely amiss, and you bro have been hoodwinked.
The priest is a big "Fruit Loops" who openly goes into Manhattan each week to visit the Opera (and his boy friend). There is a move by many in the parish to jettison him from the local church (with the hope to defrock the Homo). So I dont think he will mind.....he is otherwise distracted. & since I was born RC, I can move around them pretty well..... I will just be viewed as another lapsed Catlik. My state i believe is the 2nd most catholic state in the USA behind RI. WE are just freaking loaded with them. And they seriously aren't even looking to see who truly is or isn't a Catlik.
Amen! I don't understand how a born again Christian can attend and participate in the RC Mass. The entire thing is un-Biblical and, frankly, gives me the creeps. I have a lot of catholics in my family, and so, on occasion, I've had to attend weddings and funerals. I had to attend the funeral of a cousin who was killed in an auto accident, and what I witnessed in the catholic funeral service made me so uncomfortable that I got up and walked out in the middle of it. The Holy Spirit convicted me so hard of even watching that un-Biblical rigamarole that I couldn't sit through any more of it. I don't believe a true Christian can continue to attend a RCC and take part in that nonsense. Sorry. Do I believe catholics can be saved? Absolutely! Do I believe a catholic who is TRULY saved will STAY in the RCC? Nope, I'm not believing that for a second.
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