How Did John Piper Become A Calvinist?

[Barry Johnson]

Barry,
We've been through all this, many times now...
Have we not?

The problem, as I see it, is that you're not believing the actual words on the page.
For example ( and this should be an easy one if one is paying attention to every word ):

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).

Straightforward and to the point...
How many believed in this passage, when Paul preached that day?
As many as were ordained ( appointed ) to eternal life.

Another:

" For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:10 ).

Believers are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.

Do you understand what that means?
It means exactly what it says...
No more, no less.
Yet you do not believe the actual words, apparently.

Barry, there is no "interpretation" needed...
One only has to read and believe what is written.
I believe those words by faith because God wrote them, not because a man "interpreted" them for me.
I also came to my understanding of those words over time and with much study.

So...at the end of it all, why did I become a "Calvinist"?
Because God showed me His words and I believed them by faith.

All of them.

Context please for Eph 2 10 ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yet, we all testify against you.

I trust the Scriptures and it can be no accident that all 5 points of calvinism are not taught in the scriptures.

 

[1689Dave]

I had a Calvinistic conversion to Christ but fell into among several false churches behind the Arminian Curtain. It wasn't until I heard the Synod of Dort's 5 points and especially limited atonement that I knew by experience there was truth to be learned. I immediately dropped out of all forms of Arminianism and spent $$$ on a Calvinistic Theological Library followed by years of study. If you experience Christ as I did, Calvinism is the only system that you can identify with.

 

[AustinC]

A jehovah witness can quote 5 verses and prove the watchtower is correct . Im yet to hear any context given to any verses yet ? Each time I'm pushing back with context.

Barry, you have been provided passages, in context. You are making a false claim that no one has provided context to you. Please be honest going forward.

 

[Alan Gross]

The elect can

The dead have to be Made Alive by God, as all Scripture Teaches, without exception.

Unless God Can Not Discribe "sin" without being called a man.

 

[Van]

In this thread, we have an OP that provides a snippet from John Piper as to why he became a Calvinist.

First he cited Philippians 2:12-13 and interpreted this working in us occurs before we are indwelt. No support for that assumption was given in the snippet. But if you just read the chapter you see it is addressed to those already "in Christ."
Therefore the first premise of Piper is obviously bogus.

The second point as his basis for becoming a Calvinist was drawn from several verses from Romans chapter 9. To start with Piper set up a strawman, claiming those who believe God allows us to usually exercise our will autonomously, believe God cannot control our will. Of course He can, the issue is does God allow us to make godly or ungodly choices and the answer is yes.

So, at the end of the snippet, Piper has shown God can cause events to turn out His way, which is not in dispute. No effort was made to show that God does not allow humans to make choices for good or bad.

And finally note, Romans 9:16 clearly teaches the lost are able to will to be saved, so the idea the lost cannot make godly choices is demonstrated false. It is God alone who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, thus our salvation does not depend upon our willing but upon God alone.

 

[Sai]

The dead have to be Made Alive by God, as all Scripture Teaches, without exception.

Unless God Can Not Discribe "sin" without being called a man.

Is that what scripture teaches or what your theology requires? I believe that the middle position is the only one that can be called biblical. Divine enabling to allow his elect the ability to exercise a will not able to choose him.

 

[Sai]

Not limited to the idea of compatiblism teaches .

Adam was unable to seek God and did not want to. Left to himself he would still be hiding like a naked native!

 

[Sai]

That's where we differ greatly, Barry.
It is my firm conviction that one can.

I was never exposed to "Reformed Theology".
I grew up an Independent, Fundamental Baptist after hearing the Gospel in 1978.

However, I don't call what I see and believe from the Scriptures, "Calvinism", and I definitely arrived at it independent of men.

I'm here to tell you that it is not impossible, Barry.

That's fine if you disagree.
But just because you assert something based on not experiencing it for yourself, does not mean that there are exceptions to your rule.

Again, many people come to it with no outside influence.

William Tyndale, George Mueller, and many others within the past 400-500 years have done so...
Only one does not generally read about them in "theology" books and history books

Amen.
On that we agree, and I do so most wholeheartedly.

I did. Although 4 pointer

 

[AustinC]

In this thread, we have an OP that provides a snippet from John Piper as to why he became a Calvinist.

First he cited Philippians 2:12-13 and interpreted this working in us occurs before we are indwelt. No support for that assumption was given in the snippet. But if you just read the chapter you see it is addressed to those already "in Christ."
Therefore the first premise of Piper is obviously bogus.

The second point as his basis for becoming a Calvinist was drawn from several verses from Romans chapter 9. To start with Piper set up a strawman, claiming those who believe God allows us to usually exercise our will autonomously, believe God cannot control our will. Of course He can, the issue is does God allow us to make godly or ungodly choices and the answer is yes.

So, at the end of the snippet, Piper has shown God can cause events to turn out His way, which is not in dispute. No effort was made to show that God does not allow humans to make choices for good or bad.

And finally note, Romans 9:16 clearly teaches the lost are able to will to be saved, so the idea the lost cannot make godly choices is demonstrated false. It is God alone who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, thus our salvation does not depend upon our willing but upon God alone.

1) You project on Piper's premise. Your projection/assertion is bogus.
2) You create a strawman as Piper never says humans cannot make choices. He asserts, as Romans 9 asserts, that God chooses whom He will save.
No amount of human will can save a person. No attempts to choose a savior can actually save you. Only God choosing, by His will, can save you. Therefore, your assertion is the strawman, not Piper's.
3) At the end Piper declares that God chooses as He wills.

Finally, Romans 9:16 does not teach that the lost (dead in trespasses and sins) are able to will themselves to be saved. In fact, it is just the opposite.

Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

 

[atpollard]

No Reformed person wants to interpret a verse just before this literally because it does not fit the template. It is this one;

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

What if you came on a forum with the argument that God does not judge men unworthy of eternal life, but men judge themselves unworthy of eternal life because Acts 13:46 says so?

The Westminster Confession of Faith (a fairly well known Reformed Document) teaches exactly that.

“VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath, for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.”

[John 3:18-20 NASB] "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.“

Reformed people do not emphasize that verse because the Jew vs Gentile distinction lost its importance after the first century, but sinners DO damn themselves (and we all fall into that group per Eph 2:1-4).

 

[JonC]

The problem is, he can't, he is DEAD!... Hehehehe... Brother Glen

 

[AustinC]

I trust the Scriptures and it can be no accident that all 5 points of calvinism are not taught in the scriptures.

You trust yourself. It is no accident that you therefore reject the truths of scripture presented in TULIP.

 

[Van]

1) You project on Piper's premise. Your projection/assertion is bogus.
2) You create a strawman as Piper never says humans cannot make choices. He asserts, as Romans 9 asserts, that God chooses whom He will save.
No amount of human will can save a person. No attempts to choose a savior can actually save you. Only God choosing, by His will, can save you. Therefore, your assertion is the strawman, not Piper's.
3) At the end Piper declares that God chooses as He wills.

Finally, Romans 9:16 does not teach that the lost (dead in trespasses and sins) are able to will themselves to be saved. In fact, it is just the opposite.

Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

LOL, did you even listen to the OP? Did I say choosing God saves? I said the opposite.
On and on Calvinists post falsehoods. ad hominems, and non-germane arguments.
1) Philippians 2:12-13 refers to people who have been placed in Christ, so non-germane to his argument.
2) Here is what I actually said, the opposite of what this poster claimed:

And finally note, Romans 9:16 clearly teaches the lost are able to will to be saved, so the idea the lost cannot make godly choices is demonstrated false. It is God alone who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, thus our salvation does not depend upon our willing but upon God alone.

 

[37818]

I did. Although 4 pointer

On what point do you do differ? (At best I would be a two pointer. T_ _ _ P)

 

[Dave G]

Context please for Eph 2 10 ?

Ephesians 1:1-23.
Ephesians 2:1-9.

 

[Dave G]

I trust the Scriptures and it can be no accident that all 5 points of calvinism are not taught in the scriptures.

I trust the Scriptures and it can be no accident that they are.
We are at an impasse, sir, and my guess is that we always will be.

Each time I'm pushing back with context.

As am I.
For example, the context of Acts of the Apostles 13:48 is declarative and fits perfectly with what was already revealed in John 6:32-65 with Jesus own words, in Acts chapter 2 and other chapters in the book of Acts.

God decides who He saves.
That choice is not left up to us as rebellious, self-serving sinners.

See Acts of the Apostles 2:47, " ...the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved ".

Could you give valid context for your view on Acts 13 .48 please from the Chapter and surrounding verses?

I'm sorry Barry.

To me it's very plain.
The verse says what it says, and I believe the words.

Don't you?

 

[Dave G]

Dave G, I am always amazed when Reformed use this verse to prove their own election.

I'm not "Reformed".

What would you answer if someone asked you how you know you are appointed to eternal life?

Because I've believed on Christ for the forgiveness of my sins and I have, by God's grace and after over 42 years, the gift of a faith that has, so far, endured it's trials and tribulations.

Would you say because some people in Acts 13:48 were appointed to believe? Of course it was not said they were appointed to believe, it said they were appointed to eternal life. There is a difference.

Amen.
But why did they believe?

" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" ( Philippians 1:29 ).

Therefore, whoever is appointed to eternal life, believes.

I am sorry, Dave G, but aren't you confused about the whole matter?

Not at all.

 

[Dave G]

No Reformed person wants to interpret a verse just before this literally because it does not fit the template. It is this one;

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

What if you came on a forum with the argument that God does not judge men unworthy of eternal life, but men judge themselves unworthy of eternal life because Acts 13:46 says so?

Man is responsible and God is sovereign, JD.
Of that there should be no question.
Yes, the Jews by their actions did indeed judge themselves unworthy of everlasting life...
Why?
Because the text says so.

Similarly,
Acts of the Apostles 13:48 says that as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed...
Why?
Because the text says so.

But, put that aside for a minute. Isn't this a working out of the explanation we are given as to why God broke off the natural branches and grafted in gentiles in Rom 11? Wasn't it because of unbelief. Would he have saved these Jews in Acts 13 if they had not judged themselves unworthy of eternal life? Would God have saved these Jews if they would have believed?

Yes, He would have.

The question I have for you is, despite all that history...
The Law of Moses and His revealing Himself to them through His prophets and miracles, why in the world did they, by and large, reject Him even though He was standing right in front of them?
Why did they not believe?

See John 10:26.

The answers to all your questions regarding how and why anyone is saved ( or not saved ) can be found in God's word, sir.
So, study it deeply and often, and you will find those answers for yourself.

May God bless you.

 

[Dave G]

Everything and anything anyone reads or hears is interpretated by one's presuppostions and understanding of one's own language and use and meaings of words.

I'm sorry sir, but I disagree.

Sometimes what is read and heard is filtered by one's beliefs of the very words on the page, when it comes to the Bible.
Approach the Bible with no suppositions ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ), and He will transform the mind, just as His word says.