How Did John Piper Become A Calvinist?

[37818]

I trust the Scriptures and it can be no accident that all 5 points of calvinism are not taught in the scriptures.

Those who understand the Biblical foundpation of Calvinism would not agree.

* Total Depravity - Ephesians 2:1-3.

* Unconditional Election - Romans 9:5-16.

* Limited Atonement - John 10:11.

* Irresistible Grace - John 6:37.

* Perseverance of the Saints - John 10:28.

[ I believe the same Holy Scriptures the 5 point Calvinist do, Only my understanding is different in sme important ways. ]

 

[37818]

I'm sorry sir, but I disagree.

Sometimes what is read and heard is filtered by one's beliefs of the very words on the page, when it comes to the Bible.
Approach the Bible with no suppositions ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ), and He will transform the mind, just as His word says.

You said it yourself, "Sometimes what is read and heard is filtered by one's beliefs of the very words on the page, when it comes to the Bible."

Everything and anything anyone reads or hears is interpretated by one's presuppostions and understanding of one's own language and use and meanings of words.

 

[Dave G]

You said it yourself, "Sometimes what is read and heard is filtered by one's beliefs of the very words on the page, when it comes to the Bible."

Everything and anything anyone reads or hears is interpretated by one's presuppostions and understanding of one's own language and use and meaings of words.

Only it doesn't include pre-suppositions about God's word.

One should never approach His word with anything but the ability to read it and welcome whatever it says, no matter what.
His word alone should be what forms those suppositions...
Not anything outside of it.

Again, Proverbs 3:5-7.
If we reject any part of it, then it can be said that we did not receive it, agreed?

May God bless you in your studies, sir, and may we always be reminded of His great grace and mercy towards us as His children.

 

[37818]

Only it doesn't include pre-suppositions about God's word.

So you do not presuppose God's word is really God's word?

 

[Dave G]

So you do not presuppose God's word is really God's word?

According to His word, that is what His people do...
Believe His word.

Their pre-suppositions come from Him, and He has provided everything they need to both believe it and to understand it ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ).

Those that are not His children do the opposite and do not believe His words.
Please see John 8:43-47.
He that is "of God" hears God's words.
That is why we should be grateful that we believe them...

Because we are His and are taught "of" Him ( Isaiah 54:13, John 6:45 ).

 

[Dave G]

@AustinC :
Apologies for the rabbit trail, I'll sign off this thread now.

I wish you well.

 

[Alan Gross]

Is that what scripture teaches or what your theology requires? I believe that the middle position is the only one that can be called biblical. Divine enabling to allow his elect the ability to exercise a will not able to choose him.

The dead have to be Made Alive by God, as all Scripture Teaches, without exception.

 

[Sai]

The dead have to be Made Alive by God, as all Scripture Teaches, without exception.

Amen

 

[JD731]

The Westminster Confession of Faith (a fairly well known Reformed Document) teaches exactly that.

“VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath, for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.”

atpollard, a statement such as what I have highlighted above is a denial of more than one truth in the scriptures. It is much more serious than a mild disagreement between Christians. It goes to the foundation of Christianity. 1) it denies that God has taken away sin by the sacrifice of his Son. 2) it denies that God is propitiated by the shed blood of his son. 3) it denies that he has reconciled the world through the death of his son. 4) it denies that God is not imputing sin because of the death of his son. 5) it denies that the wrath of God against sin has been poured out on his son. 6) it denies that the Spirit of God has been poured out on the world. 7) it denies that saving faith comes by hearing and believing the word of God.

Hebrews 9:26
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This is past tense. God says he put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. You argue that he didn’t. Your conflict is first of all with the author is the scriptures.

John 3:18-20 NASB] "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.“

Notice what John 3:18-20 does not say; it does not say anyone is condemned because they have not believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Our Lord was not trying to convince his audience of that when he spoke these words. He was asking them to believe he is the Son of God. Pay attention to the tenses of the verbs. Men must believe that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh before they can believe he can save them. John said he recorded the seven miracles that he noted in his gospel, not so they would believe he died, was buried, and rose again but that they would believe he is the Christ, the son of God and believing that might have eternal life through his name. That is what he said. I am not making it up. His disciples did not even believe he rose from the dead until it was proven to them. They did believe he was the son of God however.

John 20:30-31
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Reformed people do not emphasize that verse because the Jew vs Gentile distinction lost its importance after the first century, but sinners DO damn themselves (and we all fall into that group per Eph 2:1-4).

There is no new revelation since the first century. What do you mean the Jew/gentile distinction is lost. Our doctrines are rooted in that distinction. The mysteries of God are dependent upon understanding that distinction. One could not understand the “mystery of Christ,” the theme of Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, or the mystery of the instantaneous bodily glorification of both living and dead saints in 1 Cor 15 etc. This philosophy is the reason there is a Reformed teaching of great error. You should rethink this kind of statement.

 

[AustinC]

LOL, did you even listen to the OP? Did I say choosing God saves? I said the opposite.
On and on Calvinists post falsehoods. ad hominems, and non-germane arguments.
1) Philippians 2:12-13 refers to people who have been placed in Christ, so non-germane to his argument.
2) Here is what I actually said, the opposite of what this poster claimed:

And finally note, Romans 9:16 clearly teaches the lost are able to will to be saved, so the idea the lost cannot make godly choices is demonstrated false. It is God alone who either credits our faith as righteousness or not, thus our salvation does not depend upon our willing but upon God alone.

Yep, you said:
"And finally note, Romans 9:16 clearly teaches the lost are able to will to be saved."

But, Romans 9:16 says the exact opposite.

Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

So, twice now, I have clearly shown that God does not teach what you are teaching. God's word clearly refutes your claim.

 

[AustinC]

@AustinC :
Apologies for the rabbit trail, I'll sign off this thread now.

I wish you well.

No problem. I find I am in agreement with you as I believe John Piper would be. We observe God's word with no presuppositions and seek to have God's word change our heart.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Barry, you have been provided passages, in context. You are making a false claim that no one has provided context to you. Please be honest going forward.

Could you show me , I may have missed ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Adam was unable to seek God and did not want to. Left to himself he would still be hiding like a naked native!

It doesn't say ' unable ' . it says he hid . there's a difference . if you hide from the police it means your able to be seen and be caught , otherwise why hide ? hide n seek 101 .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Man is responsible and God is sovereign, JD.
Of that there should be no question.
Yes, the Jews by their actions did indeed judge themselves unworthy of everlasting life...
Why?
Because the text says so.

Similarly,
Acts of the Apostles 13:48 says that as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed...
Why?
Because the text says so.

Yes, He would have.

The question I have for you is, despite all that history...
The Law of Moses and His revealing Himself to them through His prophets and miracles, why in the world did they, by and large, reject Him even though He was standing right in front of them?
Why did they not believe?

See John 10:26.

The answers to all your questions regarding how and why anyone is saved ( or not saved ) can be found in God's word, sir.
So, study it deeply and often, and you will find those answers for yourself.

May God bless you.

You are yet to offer any

I trust the Scriptures and it can be no accident that they are.
We are at an impasse, sir, and my guess is that we always will be.

As am I.
For example, the context of Acts of the Apostles 13:48 is declarative and fits perfectly with what was already revealed in John 6:32-65 with Jesus own words, in Acts chapter 2 and other chapters in the book of Acts.

God decides who He saves.
That choice is not left up to us as rebellious, self-serving sinners.

See Acts of the Apostles 2:47, " ...the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved ".

I'm sorry Barry.

To me it's very plain.
The verse says what it says, and I believe the words.

Don't you?

Again no context given ,except your over arching statements which you keep tracking back to the system. Any insights as to what is going on in Acts 13 leading up to those verses. All you are doing is isolating single verses and giving your commentary on single verses assuming they mean what your claiming . If so you would be able to offer with the surrounding verses validity to your assertions . I've already demonstrated my reasoning from the context for Acts 13 . I hear you doing this " well this one isoloated verse matches this one isolated verse over hear , and therefore agrees with my system " Oh and God bless, I guess we are not in agreement, byeeeeeee " . ???

 

[Barry Johnson]

Ephesians 1:1-23.
Ephesians 2:1-9.

Erm that's not context that's just isolated verses . ? my theory is that Calvinsm doesn't really deal with context ,so long as it fits the paradigm . Your proving the case here sadly . Acts 13 ? any insights into the context how you arrive at your conclusion. ? I know what the system teaches , inside out ,that's why I'm hoping you haven't just done the same thing?

 

[Barry Johnson]

I trust the Scriptures and it can be no accident that they are.
We are at an impasse, sir, and my guess is that we always will be.

As am I.
For example, the context of Acts of the Apostles 13:48 is declarative and fits perfectly with what was already revealed in John 6:32-65 with Jesus own words, in Acts chapter 2 and other chapters in the book of Acts.

God decides who He saves.
That choice is not left up to us as rebellious, self-serving sinners.

See Acts of the Apostles 2:47, " ...the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved ".

I'm sorry Barry.

To me it's very plain.
The verse says what it says, and I believe the words.

Don't you?

Genesis 6.14
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
"
To me it's very plain.
The verse says what it says, and I believe the words, don't you ? " That's why I'm building my Ark as we speak . See how we can mess things up ?
Acts 13 is a historical narrative of what was going on ,so no its not ' declaritive 'at all .
////For example, the context of Acts of the Apostles 13:48 is declarative and fits perfectly with what was already revealed in John 6:32-65 with Jesus own words, in Acts chapter 2 and other chapters in the book of Acts.////
With respect this would not pass in any children s bible study would it ? come on .
How do you arrive at your conclusion within Acts 13 ? that should be easy . its a big chapter after all .

 

[AustinC]

Could you show me , I may have missed ?

Barry, you already know. You can look back on your posts and see.
The reality is you reject what others have provided. That's your choice. But, don't claim no one provided scripture, in context, to refute you.

 

[AustinC]

Erm that's not context that's just isolated verses . ? my theory is that Calvinsm doesn't really deal with context ,so long as it fits the paradigm . Your proving the case here sadly . Acts 13 ? any insights into the context how you arrive at your conclusion. ? I know what the system teaches , inside out ,that's why I'm hoping you haven't just done the same thing?

LOL, One entire chapter, that starts out the book, and 9 verses at the beginning of the next chapter isn't context?
Okay, Barry, you have just proven my point that you refuse to actually read the Bible and consider what it says. If 32 verses, all in context, is not good enough for you, then you have officially become a Pharisee.

 

[AustinC]

Genesis 6.14
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
"
To me it's very plain.
The verse says what it says, and I believe the words, don't you ? " That's why I'm building my Ark as we speak . See how we can mess things up ?
Acts 13 is a historical narrative of what was going on ,so no its not ' declaritive 'at all .
////For example, the context of Acts of the Apostles 13:48 is declarative and fits perfectly with what was already revealed in John 6:32-65 with Jesus own words, in Acts chapter 2 and other chapters in the book of Acts.////
With respect this would not pass in any children s bible study would it ? come on .
How do you arrive at your conclusion within Acts 13 ? that should be easy . its a big chapter after all .

One verse, Barry? Where is the context? [emoji2958][emoji16][emoji28]

 

[Van]

Yep, you said:
"And finally note, Romans 9:16 clearly teaches the lost are able to will to be saved."

But, Romans 9:16 says the exact opposite.

Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

So, twice now, I have clearly shown that God does not teach what you are teaching. God's word clearly refutes your claim.

Twice you have posted what you should know is false.
Pay no attention to this fount of falsehood, who turns an effort into an accomplishment. Note that what has been done to truth and recognize Calvinism provided his model.