How Did John Piper Become A Calvinist?

[atpollard]

What do you mean the Jew/gentile distinction is lost.

Name three people you personally know that have had their sins forgiven by following the sacrifice prescribed in the Law of Moses that is available only to the Children of Israel (Jews in biblical parlance) and not available to those not descended from Israel (gentiles in biblical parlance) since Gentiles may not enter the Temple to present their sacrifice to the Priests as the Law commands.

This situation was a real problem in the First Century when Jesus walked the earth and the Gospels and Epistles were being written. It is not a significant issue that the 21st Century Church needs to deal with to any significant degree. So the verses that emphasize that salvation is now available to all men, and not to Jews only, are less critical to evangelism than they were in the First Century.

 

[Van]

Van, the reader can determine our dialogue. You can whine to highest heaven and deflect to Calvin all you want, but the reader can decide if you have any legitimacy.

On and on Calvinist post ad hominems to hide their bogus doctrines from the light.

Romans 11 proves Total Spiritual Inability is bogus because God would not have need to "harden" anyone if Calvinism was true.

On and on folks, scripture after scripture, being made to no effect by the traditions of men.

 

[Sai]

Name three people you personally know that have had their sins forgiven by following the sacrifice prescribed in the Law of Moses that is available only to the Children of Israel (Jews in biblical parlance) and not available to those not descended from Israel (gentiles in biblical parlance) since Gentiles may not enter the Temple to present their sacrifice to the Priests as the Law commands.

This situation was a real problem in the First Century when Jesus walked the earth and the Gospels and Epistles were being written. It is not a significant issue that the 21st Century Church needs to deal with to any significant degree. So the verses that emphasize that salvation is now available to all men, and not to Jews only, are less critical to evangelism than they were in the First Century.

Salvation is of the Jew.

 

[atpollard]

Salvation is of the Jew.

My salvation is of ONE PARTICULAR Jew ... who also happens to be God the Son.

If you have some specific point to make, you will need to expound upon it because I am not clever enough to follow from just your brief statement.

Are you part of the “Circumcision Party” come to advocate that one cannot become a Christian without first becoming a Jew under the Law?
Paul had some harsh things to say about you.

 

[atpollard]

Romans 11 proves Total Spiritual Inability is bogus because God would not have need to "harden" anyone if Calvinism was true.

No it doesn’t.

 

[Sai]

My salvation is of ONE PARTICULAR Jew ... who also happens to be God the Son.

If you have some specific point to make, you will need to expound upon it because I am not clever enough to follow from just your brief statement.

Are you part of the “Circumcision Party” come to advocate that one cannot become a Christian without first becoming a Jew under the Law?
Paul had some harsh things to say about you.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Geek”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭ASV‬‬

 

[Sai]

On and on Calvinist post ad hominems to hide their bogus doctrines from the light.

Romans 11 proves Total Spiritual Inability is bogus because God would not have need to "harden" anyone if Calvinism was true.

On and on folks, scripture after scripture, being made to no effect by the traditions of men.

That is true, men are already hardened from birth.

 

[Van]

No it doesn’t.

One Calvinist after another offering up "taint so" posts without addressing why God hardened folks that according to Calvinism already had total spiritual inability.

It is mind boggling to me how any objective person could not see the obvious truth, Calvinism is bogus every which way from Sunday.

 

[AustinC]

One Calvinist after another offering up "taint so" posts without addressing why God hardened folks that according to Calvinism already had total spiritual inability.

It is mind boggling to me how any objective person could not see the obvious truth, Calvinism is bogus every which way from Sunday.

If humans possessed the capacity to save themselves by their own will and God purposely stopped them from choosing Him, would that be consistent with what the Bible expresses about God?

You cannot conceive of God hardening Pharaoh's heart, despite the fact that Pharoah would never choose God by his own volition. Yet, you seem to applaud God hardening a heart that, by your reckoning, had the independent capacity to choose God.

 

[Rob_BW]

I can't speak for Piper, but personally, after about the fourth time reading through the Bible in its entirety, I couldn't find any way to deny it.

 

[atpollard]

One Calvinist after another offering up "taint so" posts without addressing why God hardened folks that according to Calvinism already had total spiritual inability.

If you will not believe the Apostle Paul, or be convinced by his explanation in Romans Chapter 9, what hope do I have of doing a better job than he did?

I believe Paul and Romans 3 and Romans 9, so "Taint so." is the best I can offer to your denial of that scriptural truth. God DOES harden those born spiritually dead, so denying it is your folly, not mine.

 

[atpollard]

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Geek”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭ASV‬‬

No argument from me, but the point I was making is that I do not begin any effort to share the "good news" with the fact that Salvation was offered to the Jews first and is only now available to non-Jews. Is that a significant point in YOUR evangelization efforts?

(This stems from why Calvinists do not quote one specific verse as often as another.)

 

[Yeshua1]

One Calvinist after another offering up "taint so" posts without addressing why God hardened folks that according to Calvinism already had total spiritual inability.

It is mind boggling to me how any objective person could not see the obvious truth, Calvinism is bogus every which way from Sunday.

No, the only bogus thing is how you misunderstanding what Calvinism actually teaches!

 

[Van]

If humans possessed the capacity to save themselves by their own will and God purposely stopped them from choosing Him, would that be consistent with what the Bible expresses about God?

You cannot conceive of God hardening Pharaoh's heart, despite the fact that Pharoah would never choose God by his own volition. Yet, you seem to applaud God hardening a heart that, by your reckoning, had the independent capacity to choose God.

Non-germane nonsense posted as deflection, humans cannot save themselves

 

[Van]

If you will not believe the Apostle Paul, or be convinced by his explanation in Romans Chapter 9, what hope do I have of doing a better job than he did?

I believe Paul and Romans 3 and Romans 9, so "Taint so." is the best I can offer to your denial of that scriptural truth. God DOES harden those born spiritually dead, so denying it is your folly, not mine.

On and on, making the word of God to no effect. Romans 3 and Romans 9 demonstrate Calvinism is bogus.

 

[Van]

No, the only bogus thing is how you misunderstanding what Calvinism actually teaches!

On and on folks, Calvinists only change the subject and disparage those who post truth.

 

[George Antonios]

I couldn't find free-will anywhere in the Bible

This like our noble brother @

Lev_22:18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;
Lev_22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.
Lev_22:23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.
Lev_23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
Num_15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:
Num_29:39 These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.
Deu_12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deu_12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deu_16:10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu_23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.
2Ch_31:14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.
Ezr_1:4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.
Ezr_3:5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.
Ezr_7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Ezr_7:16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:
Ezr_8:28 And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.
Psa_119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

And almost all freewill in relation to a sacrifice prefiguring Christ's sacrifice...almost like the Lord foresaw the heresy of Calvinism...almost.

 

[George Antonios]

The problem, as I see it, is that you're not believing the actual words on the page.

You keep saying that, yet in our previous interactions:

1) You had to change chosen us in him before the foundation of the world to chosen us [to be] in him before the foundation of the world
2) You did not believe "the words on the page" when shown verses that said that people were saved by faith, not just through
3) You can't believe that God so loved the world is...the world...you know, "the words on the page".
4) you do not believe that slain from the foundation of the world means the Lamb was actually slain back then, though you do believe that chosen in him before the foundation of the world means we were actually chosen back then...you know..."words on the page"...

 

[Alan Gross]

Twice you have posted what you should know is false.
Pay no attention to this fount of falsehood, who turns an effort into an accomplishment. Note that what has been done to truth and recognize Calvinism provided his model.

Hieronymus. A.D. 390.

"Jerom was a warm defender of the grace of God, against
Pelagius and his followers; he asserts, that all the good things we
enjoy are from the free grace of God:

"All things, says he, speaking to and of God are thine; and whatever good thing there
is, sine to cujus est, dari non potest, can not be given without
thee, whose it is; for God only is he who can instruct his people,
and who can give diversitates gratiae, diversities of grace, to them
that wait upon him.

"And elsewhere, having observed God different
dispensations towards men and his leaving of them to their own
wills that they may receive the reward or punishment thereof, he
adds, Not that all that shall come to pass shall be of man, but of
the grace of him that gives all things; for so the liberty of the will is
to be preserved, ut in omnibus excellat gratia largitoris,

‘that in all things the grace of the giver may excel, according to Psalm 127:1,
Romans 9:15.”

"And a little after he asks, “Where then is the power
and judgment of man’s own free will without the grace of God?”

Upon Jeremiah 32:40 he has this note, “So he gives free will, that
notwithstanding the fear which is bestowed, gratia permaneat
largitoris, the grace of the giver might remain.

In another place, says he, “Whatever thou hast, thou thinkest non tuae esse virtutis
sed ejus misericordiae, is not owing to thine own virtue, but to his
mercy.”

 

[Alan Gross]

This like our noble brother @

Lev_22:18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;
Lev_22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.
Lev_22:23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.
Lev_23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
Num_15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:
Num_29:39 These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.
Deu_12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deu_12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deu_16:10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu_23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.
2Ch_31:14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.
Ezr_1:4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.
Ezr_3:5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.
Ezr_7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Ezr_7:16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:
Ezr_8:28 And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.
Psa_119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

And almost all freewill in relation to a sacrifice prefiguring Christ's sacrifice...almost like the Lord foresaw the heresy of Calvinism...almost.

AustinC, George found, "freewill offering", man.