How did you come to believe?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I found Christ while in the Marine Corpse. No man had the power to get me through what I went through but Jesus Christ gave me the strength. I've done alot of backsliding since then and veered from the narrow road but am back on track again. I put Christ on the back burner for awhile but he never gave up on me. :godisgood:

Marine 'Corpse'...LoL...Semper Five:laugh:

 

[Zenas]

When David's infant child was about to die, David wept, fasted and prayed that God would spare the infant's life. When he discerned from the tone of his servants that the child had died he inquired if it was so. When his servants confirmed that to him, he arose, washed himself, changed his garments and assumed his kingly duties. His servants, astonished, asked why he mourned before the child died and not after.
--David replied: Why should I mourn now. "I shall go to him; he shall not come to me."
--David was sure that he would see his child in paradise.

David trusted in the mercy of God.
I trust in the mercy of God.
"It is of the Lord's mercy that we are not consumed; his compassion fails not. Great is His faithfulness."

All of that does not change what the Bible teaches. We are all born in sin.
Baptists teach the depravity of man.
Catholics teach the depravity of man.
Augustine taught the depravity of man.

What is your problem in not believing this very essential truth of the Bible.

I don't have a problem with any of that. I agree 100% with the opinions you expressed, although I was trying to posit the question in the context of prevailing Baptist thought. While all Baptists teach the depravity of man, Southern Baptists (the largest non-Catholic denomination in the United States) do not impute this depravity to little children. This is what the Baptist Faith and Message says: "Therefore, as soon as they are capable of moral action, they become transgressors and are under condemnation." Note that this says they are not under condemnation until they are capable of moral action.

What is your position on my other question?

Do you believe that young children who die after reaching the age of accountability and before "being saved" go to hell? Why or why not?

 

[JonC]

Zenas, you should note that the quote DHK provides does not necessarily mean that infants who die are redeemed or go to heaven. It could just as easily be interpreted that David was speaking of the grave rather than being united in paradise with his son.

 

[Zenas]

Zenas, you should note that the quote DHK provides does not necessarily mean that infants who die are redeemed or go to heaven. It could just as easily be interpreted that David was speaking of the grave rather than being united in paradise with his son.

Yes it might mean that but I believe DHK understands that God in His mercy takes little children to Heaven. I'm sure he will correct me if I misstated his belief even though he doesn't rely on much evidence to conclude what others believe.

 

[DHK]

Yes it might mean that but I believe DHK understands that God in His mercy takes little children to Heaven. I'm sure he will correct me if I misstated his belief even though he doesn't rely on much evidence to conclude what others believe.

Do you believe that young children who die after reaching the age of accountability and before "being saved" go to hell? Why or why not?

Why are you asking the above question again, if you already understand what my answer is by quoting my previous post. That was my reason for explaining David's experience with his infant child.
He believed he would see his child in paradise (our equivalent of heaven).
Those who who reach an age of accountability have a choice to make.
Like every other person on this earth, they must either receive Christ or reject him.

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me."
--That statement can only be interpreted one way.

 

[Zenas]

Why are you asking the above question again, if you already understand what my answer is by quoting my previous post. That was my reason for explaining David's experience with his infant child.
He believed he would see his child in paradise (our equivalent of heaven).
Those who who reach an age of accountability have a choice to make.
Like every other person on this earth, they must either receive Christ or reject him.

Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me."
--That statement can only be interpreted one way.

I asked two (2) separate and distinct questions and you answered the first one very well. However, you did not address the second one and that is why I posted it again. Now you have danced around it but you still haven't answered it.

Do you believe that young children who die after reaching the age of accountability and before "being saved" go to hell? Why or why not?

All it takes is a "yes" or "no" answer and then as much or as little supporting argument as you care to give.

 

[preacher4truth]

[\
Strike one- Child born outa wedlock
Strike two- Childs parents not Covenant of Grace/ Bible Believing Christians.
Strike three- Child had not heard the Gospel & made a profession of faith.

End Result-Child resides in hell (later modified to .... we just dont know that child's whereabouts....so sorry?!?)

So for me, that now made me Gods Enemy.

Not at all. You were already Gods enemy prior to any of these events.

 

[DHK]

All it takes is a "yes" or "no" answer and then as much or as little supporting argument as you care to give.

Your question:

Do you believe that young children who die after reaching the age of accountability and before "being saved" go to hell? Why or why not?

The answer is not a simple yes or no, because of the definition of "age of accountability," which in God's eyes will be different with every person. If you remember when God sent the 12 spies into the Promised Land "to spy out the land," they returned: 10 with a bad report, and two with a good report. The ten discouraged the nation, and the Lord judged them. That generation twenty years and over, would wander in the wilderness until they died (40 years). The Lord did not hold those under the age of 20 "accountable."
That was then, at that time, in that circumstance.

As long as we are clear that it is God that chooses what is the "age of accountability" and not you or I, then I can answer your question. We must agree on that one point.
Having agreed on that point, yes; a person who has reached the age of accountability will go to hell for he will be held accountable for not receiving Christ as his savior.

 

[Zenas]

Your question:
The answer is not a simple yes or no, because of the definition of "age of accountability," which in God's eyes will be different with every person. If you remember when God sent the 12 spies into the Promised Land "to spy out the land," they returned: 10 with a bad report, and two with a good report. The ten discouraged the nation, and the Lord judged them. That generation twenty years and over, would wander in the wilderness until they died (40 years). The Lord did not hold those under the age of 20 "accountable."
That was then, at that time, in that circumstance.

As long as we are clear that it is God that chooses what is the "age of accountability" and not you or I, then I can answer your question. We must agree on that one point.
Having agreed on that point, yes; a person who has reached the age of accountability will go to hell for he will be held accountable for not receiving Christ as his savior.

Well, DHK, we agree again. It's God's call, not ours, and only He knows the instant in time when the age of accountability is reached in each person.

So, doesn't this make for a very dangerous gap of time? After reaching the age of accountability, before getting saved? Whatever period in a person's life this is, and for all but the mentally handicapped it starts at a young age, it is a time when that person dies he/she will go to hell. Seems like a very dangerous part of one's life, especially for the unsuspecting child who has believed in Jesus as long as he can remember, who has loved and trusted Jesus as long as he can remember, but has not had that “born again” experience.

 

[DHK]

Well, DHK, we agree again. It's God's call, not ours, and only He knows the instant in time when the age of accountability is reached in each person.

God knows.
But if you don't know then you are in danger of your own salvation.
The Bible distinctly says:

"Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith."
Are you in the faith or not? If so, when did you come "into the faith."
Did you get married? When? When did you become part of the bride of Christ? How can you not remember such a momentous event?
A father and mother remember the birth of a child.
The Bible says "You must be born again." That happens to an adult when he is regenerated by the Spirit of God. Believe me; he knows when it takes place. Just as much as one knows when he gets married one knows when he is born again. How can he not know? Do you get married by proxy or some silly thing?
Being saved; born again; is the greatest even of a person's life.
Yes God knows it; but you know it too. And if you don't know it, then I question your salvation.

So, doesn't this make for a very dangerous gap of time? After reaching the age of accountability, before getting saved? Whatever period in a person's life this is, and for all but the mentally handicapped it starts at a young age, it is a time when that person dies he/she will go to hell. Seems like a very dangerous part of one's life, especially for the unsuspecting child who has believed in Jesus as long as he can remember, who has loved and trusted Jesus as long as he can remember, but has not had that “born again”

You are way off topic and are speaking speculatively. I cannot know the hearts of others, and don't pretend to. But I can examine the fruit of a person's life, and the testimony of a person's life. If a person tells me that they don't know or remember if they have ever made a decision for Christ, then I would question their salvation.
Examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith.
One must have a personal relationship with the Lord. If they do, then it had to start somewhere. Small children don't have that relationship for it comes by faith. It had to start somewhere. If you want to start another thread on the age of accountability, etc. then do. But that is not the topic of this thread. You are derailing this thread by going in that direction.

The question is:
How did you come to believe?

 

[Yeshua1]

Your question:
The answer is not a simple yes or no, because of the definition of "age of accountability," which in God's eyes will be different with every person. If you remember when God sent the 12 spies into the Promised Land "to spy out the land," they returned: 10 with a bad report, and two with a good report. The ten discouraged the nation, and the Lord judged them. That generation twenty years and over, would wander in the wilderness until they died (40 years). The Lord did not hold those under the age of 20 "accountable."
That was then, at that time, in that circumstance.

As long as we are clear that it is God that chooses what is the "age of accountability" and not you or I, then I can answer your question. We must agree on that one point.
Having agreed on that point, yes; a person who has reached the age of accountability will go to hell for he will be held accountable for not receiving Christ as his savior.

Answering as a calvinist here!
God chooses, elects thom whom will be saved by the Cross of Christ, so all children part of that election will be saved, reagrdless of age...

Some say JUST the children of saved parents will be elect, but my understanding is that God elected all under that age to be saved by the Cross, and those special cases such as mentally challenged peoples...

 

[DHK]

Answering as a calvinist here!
God chooses, elects thom whom will be saved by the Cross of Christ, so all children part of that election will be saved, reagrdless of age...

Some say JUST the children of saved parents will be elect, but my understanding is that God elected all under that age to be saved by the Cross, and those special cases such as mentally challenged peoples...

So, in your scheme of things God separates everyone into two groups.
The one he chooses to go to heaven.
The other he tells them to go to hell.
Is that about right?

 

[steaver]

Answering as a calvinist here!

.............. but my understanding is that God elected all under that age to be saved by the Cross, and those special cases such as mentally challenged peoples...

This is another flaw in the attempt to give TULIP a real life application. Your are saying that all children under this unknown age of accountability are Elect, but once they reach a certain age they must then become un-elect. That would defeat TULIP's stance on Election.

What your saying here is an attempt to soften the blow presented by Calvinism. If Calvinism is true, then there must be millions of children who are not Elect from birth, just like the claim towards adults.

 

[DHK]

Answering as a calvinist here!
God chooses, elects thom whom will be saved by the Cross of Christ, so all children part of that election will be saved, reagrdless of age...

Some say JUST the children of saved parents will be elect, but my understanding is that God elected all under that age to be saved by the Cross, and those special cases such as mentally challenged peoples...

However, this is another attempt to derail the thread.
It is a simple question, and one which I enjoy reading the answers to:

The question is:
How did you come to believe?

 

[Winman]

This is another flaw in the attempt to give TULIP a real life application. Your are saying that all children under this unknown age of accountability are Elect, but once they reach a certain age they must then become un-elect. That would defeat TULIP's stance on Election.

What your saying here is an attempt to soften the blow presented by Calvinism. If Calvinism is true, then there must be millions of children who are not Elect from birth, just like the claim towards adults.

Not to derail this thread, but the real issue is Original Sin. Folks simply do not believe it. Almost no one believes that God sends little babies to hell. Why? Because deep down inside people KNOW they have not done anything deserving of eternal punishment.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

So, instead of believing that men are made upright but willingly choose to sin when they are older (Ecc 7:29), folks invent all sorts of unscriptural views that says God shows "special grace" to babies. Why would God do that if babies are truly wicked sinners like the rest of us?

They also claim that God saves babies without faith in Jesus, which completely goes against all scripture.

Babies do not need to repent, babies are not lost.

Mat 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Truth is, almost nobody sincerely believes Original Sin, this is why almost nobody believes little babies who die go to hell. Oh, they will give it lip service, because you are considered a heretic if you dare challenge OS, but in reality, almost no one except the most extreme Calvinists and Roman Catholics believe it.

Now back to thread.

 

[Yeshua1]

So, in your scheme of things God separates everyone into two groups.
The one he chooses to go to heaven.
The other he tells them to go to hell.
Is that about right?

ALL humans are born under the taint of original Sin, as ALL have been already judged and found guilty by God due to the fall of Adam.

ALL deserve to go to hell, as we are sinners who choose to disobey God wilfully..

God decided from eternity part to redeem and save out for Himself a remnant of sinners, unto His glory..

seems that you are basing this upon human reasoning of what is to be considered "fair and right!"

 

[Yeshua1]

Not to derail this thread, but the real issue is Original Sin. Folks simply do not believe it. Almost no one believes that God sends little babies to hell. Why? Because deep down inside people KNOW they have not done anything deserving of eternal punishment.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

So, instead of believing that men are made upright but willingly choose to sin when they are older (Ecc 7:29), folks invent all sorts of unscriptural views that says God shows "special grace" to babies. Why would God do that if babies are truly wicked sinners like the rest of us?

They also claim that God saves babies without faith in Jesus, which completely goes against all scripture.

Babies do not need to repent, babies are not lost.

Mat 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Truth is, almost nobody sincerely believes Original Sin, this is why almost nobody believes little babies who die go to hell. Oh, they will give it lip service, because you are considered a heretic if you dare challenge OS, but in reality, almost no one except the most extreme Calvinists and Roman Catholics believe it.

Now back to thread.

God send NONE to Kell, He allows them to go there, as that is Him honoring their will to disobey the Lord and reject him and go there instead!

 

[steaver]

God send NONE to Kell, He allows them to go there, as that is Him honoring their will to disobey the Lord and reject him and go there instead!

Have any children Yeshua? Nieces or Nephews? Do you mind God not choosing them for salvation and allowing them to be damned to hell for ever?

 

[Yeshua1]

Have any children Yeshua? Nieces or Nephews? Do you mind God not choosing them for salvation and allowing them to be damned to hell for ever?

yes, have neices/nephews, 2 sons of my own, but trust thatthe Lord will do the right thing always, so trust in Him to save them!

 

[steaver]

yes, have neices/nephews, 2 sons of my own, but trust thatthe Lord will do the right thing always, so trust in Him to save them!

According to your beliefs, the right thing for God to do would be to damn them to hell. According to your beliefs, God does not save a person because it is the right thing to do.

So my question was....

"Do you mind God not choosing them for salvation and allowing them to be damned to hell for ever?"