How did you come to believe?

[Yeshua1]

To you that may have been silly, though there are many on this board that cannot give answer to the second part of the post. They don't know when they were saved. They think they have been saved all their life, in which case I would question if they are really saved or not.

Therefore I ask you again, How did you come to know the Lord as your Savior?

By the holy spirit quickening me, as when I heard about jesus and how he did in my plaxce, for my sins, and the Spirit made that real and personal to me, he openned my heart and mind and gave me the means to receive jesus thru faith!

 

[kyredneck]

.... grew up believing and there was never a time in their rational thought process that they did not believe.....

:thumbs: Zactly. Jesus Christ has been my hero literally for as long as I can remember.

 

[steaver]

By the holy spirit quickening me, as when I heard about jesus and how he did in my plaxce, for my sins, and the Spirit made that real and personal to me, he openned my heart and mind and gave me the means to receive jesus thru faith!

Actually brother, it says.....

John1:12-13, "
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

......we believe and then we are quickened.

 

[DHK]

:thumbs: Zactly. Jesus Christ has been my hero literally for as long as I can remember.

Are you married brother? Or can't you remember?

 

[Rippon]

And DHK will say it is through superior wisdom and perception someone can come to faith in Christ.

It is the view of DHK that "God may or may not be involved in one's salvation."

With respect to someone's salvation DHK maintains that "God knows about it of course."

DHK,without dancing -- please tell us if you still hold to the things I have referenced from your past remarks on the subject.

 

[DHK]

DHK,without dancing -- please tell us if you still hold to the things I have referenced from your past remarks on the subject.

Originally Posted by Rippon
And DHK will say it is through superior wisdom and perception someone can come to faith in Christ.

It is the view of DHK that "God may or may not be involved in one's salvation."

With respect to someone's salvation DHK maintains that "God knows about it of course."

The part of this post that is germane to the conversation, the Bible and the OP, I have already answered.

The ridiculous and slanderous illogical accusation, I have ignored.

On that note, you also have ignored your own testimony.
Perhaps I should word it this way now. If you are saved when and how were you saved.

I say it that way because most believers rejoice in their salvation and are glad to give their testimony. Why so reluctant?

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually brother, it says.....

John1:12-13, "
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

......we believe and then we are quickened.

Who are the one that are actually able to receive him and get saved by him though?


They are the ones who were forappointed by God to believe unto His name!

 

[Zenas]

The main problem with the concept of "getting saved" is that the entire New Testament was written about first generation Christians. There are no N.T. examples of second generation Christians being saved. Every single convert to Christianity was a former Jew, a former pagan or a former unbeliever. There had to be a spiritual transformation of these people, i.e., a time when they came to believe. We see the same thing today among persons who come to a knowledge of Jesus and their giving over their lives to Him. It is truly a crisis experience for them.

However, for those who have loved and trusted Jesus as long as they have any conscious memory, the idea of "coming to believe" is absurd. It is a flaw in evangelical thought that needs to be addressed and discarded.

 

[DHK]

The main problem with the concept of "getting saved" is that the entire New Testament was written about first generation Christians. There are no N.T. examples of second generation Christians being saved. Every single convert to Christianity was a former Jew, a former pagan or a former unbeliever. There had to be a spiritual transformation of these people, i.e., a time when they came to believe. We see the same thing today among persons who come to a knowledge of Jesus and their giving over their lives to Him. It is truly a crisis experience for them.

However, for those who have loved and trusted Jesus as long as they have any conscious memory, the idea of "coming to believe" is absurd. It is a flaw in evangelical thought that needs to be addressed and discarded.

Every person is an unbeliever, pagan, etc., in their beliefs before they trusted Christ. If there never was an actual time when they came to Christ as a lost sinner then they are still lost. Jesus came to save the lost. Until a person realizes his lost and sinful condition and is willing to confess that to God, Himself a needy sinner, condemned and on His way to God; a criminal in God's sight, he cannot be saved.
We are all worthy of God's wrath and condemnation. There is not one thing that any of us have ever done to merit any good in God's eyes. All of our works are as filthy rags in His sight. The very reason He died was because of our great ungodliness, rebelliousness, and wickedness against God.
Therefore you must come willingly to Christ knowing full well of that great sinfulness and the awful need you have for a Savior to take away the terrible burden of sin that you carry that only Christ alone can forgive. Not to realize that there was such a day in your history, where you, a criminal before God, were pardoned and set free from the guilt and power of sin, is unfathomable.

 

[Zenas]

Every person is an unbeliever, pagan, etc., in their beliefs before they trusted Christ. If there never was an actual time when they came to Christ as a lost sinner then they are still lost. Jesus came to save the lost. Until a person realizes his lost and sinful condition and is willing to confess that to God, Himself a needy sinner, condemned and on His way to God; a criminal in God's sight, he cannot be saved.
We are all worthy of God's wrath and condemnation. There is not one thing that any of us have ever done to merit any good in God's eyes. All of our works are as filthy rags in His sight. The very reason He died was because of our great ungodliness, rebelliousness, and wickedness against God.
Therefore you must come willingly to Christ knowing full well of that great sinfulness and the awful need you have for a Savior to take away the terrible burden of sin that you carry that only Christ alone can forgive. Not to realize that there was such a day in your history, where you, a criminal before God, were pardoned and set free from the guilt and power of sin, is unfathomable.

DHK, that's just crazy talk. Most people make a public profession of faith. I did. I remember it well. But did I have any more allegiance to Jesus afterward than I did before? No way. To believe you have to have that crisis experience is a grave error that you get by trying to imitate New Testament Christians, who were all first generation Christians. I am not a first generation Christian (and neither are you).

 

[DHK]

DHK, that's just crazy talk. Most people make a public profession of faith. I did. I remember it well. But did I have any more allegiance to Jesus afterward than I did before? No way. To believe you have to have that crisis experience is a grave error that you get by trying to imitate New Testament Christians, who were all first generation Christians. I am not a first generation Christian (and neither are you).

There is no difference between a first generation Christian and a twenty-first generation except for twenty centuries of time. When a Muslim turns to Christ he endures the same persecution that a Jew did back in the first century. His family disowns him, then persecutes him, and even tries to kill him. There is intense persecution of converts from Islam especially in Islamic nations. Properties are confiscated, belongings are burned and believers are both persecuted, tortured and murdered. In spite of it all they remain true to Christ.

Christ did not come to save the righteous but sinners.
He said it himself. Unless you realize that you are that sinner you cannot be saved. That is the main barrier preventing so many from being saved. They think they already are because they were raised in a "Christian" family. There is no such thing as "Christian" family. We are all born in sin; born with a sin nature; a nature that water cannot cleanse but only the blood of Jesus can. That is why one must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved." His blood cleanses what baptism cannot cleanse (and never could). It is simply water.

Every person is born a sinner, and every sinner needs to come to Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

DHK, that's just crazy talk. Most people make a public profession of faith. I did. I remember it well. But did I have any more allegiance to Jesus afterward than I did before? No way. To believe you have to have that crisis experience is a grave error that you get by trying to imitate New Testament Christians, who were all first generation Christians. I am not a first generation Christian (and neither are you).

the person MUST be convicted and convinced by the Person of the Holy Spirit that they are sinners, that they can do NOTHING to get right with God apart from trusting/receiving Jesus thru faith!

The persons that claim that "I have always believed, cannot remember ever asking Jesus to save me" are the Ones they need to make sure of their status before the Lord!

For many of them have the ole salvation of Mommy and daddy experience covering me going on!

 

[steaver]

the person MUST be convicted and convinced by the Person of the Holy Spirit that they are sinners, that they can do NOTHING to get right with God apart from trusting/receiving Jesus thru faith!

The persons that claim that "I have always believed, cannot remember ever asking Jesus to save me" are the Ones they need to make sure of their status before the Lord!

For many of them have the ole salvation of Mommy and daddy experience covering me going on!

I thought you were a Calvinist which does not believe Jesus needs to be asked for salvation?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

When I look around and see people who are leading Christian lives, most of them bearing visible “fruit”, they appear neither spiritual nor intellectual. They are laboring in the Lord’s vineyard because that is what they have always done. In the words of William Blackstone, because “the memory of man runneth not to the contrary.” The church is their extended family, the center of their social life, the place where their children will more often than not find a mate. In such a setting your thoughts tend to mirror the rest of the group.

To be sure there are some who dig deeper and make a rational decision to continue following Christ. These people are sometimes referred to as “intellectual Christians.”

Others, as you mentioned, have a deep spiritual experience. I have seen these throughout all denominations but they tend to be most evident in the charismatic groups. I have noticed that these people often have an attitude of superiority over “intellectual Christians.”

I have had a few spiritual experiences but none that were life changing. Therefore, I would have to be numbered with those who have made a rational choice.

Thank you for this post.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

When were you saved Brother Steve, when were you saved???? :laugh:

Man I hated that & I would of killed anyone who bothered with that nonsense .... but it was my brother, my kin, my blood who came into my house & tried every trick in the book to convert me .... & I mean everything. He was & still is to me a far out religious nut job.... and a few times I let him know it. You know, I was raised up in a Roman Catholic church (and up here/NJ, PA & NY--they are huge). I went every week till my mother died & so therefore I was released from that weird obligation. & you know what, I heard the gospel & even had a NIV Bible to read & I tried to read it but nothin. Went to a coupla these churches my wife dragged me to ....it was for the kids. But when they were raised, not so much.

At some point my brother gave up..... he had taken the gospel to me & shoved it in my face & nothin. I think it surprised him more than anything else.....here is a balls to the wall IFB Pastor trying to get his brother saved & failing miserably. To add insult to injury, when I lost a child in infancy I got a surprising theology lesson from some of "These Loving Reformed Brethren" about the place of habitation of the child..... Lets review:

Strike one- Child born outa wedlock
Strike two- Childs parents not Covenant of Grace/ Bible Believing Christians.
Strike three- Child had not heard the Gospel & made a profession of faith.

End Result-Child resides in hell (later modified to .... we just dont know that child's whereabouts....so sorry?!?)

So for me, that now made me Gods Enemy. I also got to deal with the extra bonus prise of it became the primary motivator for my wifes drinking (and I dont mean milk!)

Now guess what saved me---maybe about 3 yrs now at 53 YO ???? And I will give you one hint, "It wasn't no Bible Thumping Christian sharing the Gospel with me"

And its so fresh to me that I can tell you where I was, the temperature (in winter) & where I was going. Yes it was so dramatic, I was knocked off my high horse & made to realize I was a heinous sinner, a lier, a non believer/ atheist (but even they are or were a level higher than my deceptions). Suddenly my true self was revealed to me....and I was disgusted with myself & I greaved. I actually pulled over to the side of the road & cried. And something changed in me that day. Changed my life.

Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I have not been here much lately, and so I have not followed this thread I started. But upon reading it through, I can say that there have been many excellent posts here, and I thank you all for them. Some very important points have been made. I can see the matter from DHK's perspective but also from that of Zenas.

 

[Yeshua1]

I thought you were a Calvinist which does not believe Jesus needs to be asked for salvation?

most calvinists would say that Jesus still must be received thru faith in order to have the sinner become a saint!

 

[steaver]

most calvinists would say that Jesus still must be received thru faith in order to have the sinner become a saint!

That does not address my question...

Originally Posted by steaver
I thought you were a Calvinist which does not believe Jesus needs to be asked for salvation?

 

[Yeshua1]

That does not address my question...

God granted you the means to be saved, and the Lord Jesus to die for your sins, so did you ask him to be saved?

 

[steaver]

God granted you the means to be saved, and the Lord Jesus to die for your sins, so did you ask him to be saved?

God granted all the means to be saved, and the Lord Jesus to die for the sins of the world, yes, I asked Jesus to save me.