How do Baptists view I Pet 3:21

[Matt Black]

This is where we talk about the verse which is oft-cited by proponents of baptismal regeneration as support for their view. The first part, on a Plain Reading(TM) of Scripture, seems clear enough: "And this water symbolizes baptism, which now saves you". But is it so unequivocal? And what does the second part of the verse, that bit about the "pledge of a good conscience" mean?

I'd be interested to see how (credo-) Baptists interpret this verse?

 

[Scarlett O.]

This is where we talk about the verse which is oft-cited by proponents of baptismal regeneration as support for their view. The first part, on a Plain Reading(TM) of Scripture, seems clear enough: "And this water symbolizes baptism, which now saves you". But is it so unequivocal? And what does the second part of the verse, that bit about the "pledge of a good conscience" mean?

I'd be interested to see how (credo-) Baptists interpret this verse?

Verses 20-23.

"........who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people —were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Now that He has gone into heaven, He is at God’s right hand with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him."

Was Noah and his family (mentioned in the first part of that passage) actually saved BY the water? No. They were save by God. God used the ark and its buoyancy IN the water to save them. Without God's Divine Providence and had Noah built that ark by his own idea and accord - the ark would not have saved them. There was nothing supernatural about the boat - but the everything was supernatural about the God who guided the boat.

Are Christians saved BY being baptized?

Peter says no. He is careful to to explain that it is "NOT the removal of the filth of the flesh". And that is all that water can do.

He says that baptism "corresponds" to what happened to Noah and that it is a "pledge" (an offer, vow, token, promise, or sign) and he is careful to say that the water saves "through the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

A pledge (offer, vow, token, promise, or sign - I Googled the definition) carries no weight at all if the heart of person giving or saying the pledge is is untrue.

Are Christians actually saved BY the water? No. They are save by God and Jesus Christ. There is nothing supernatural about the water in the baptistry - but the everything is supernatural about the God who guided the heart of the believer and everything is supernatural about Jesus Christ and His resurrection.

To me, Peter is merely making a symbolic connection between the waters of the Old Testament and New Testament. The flood being an antitype, if you will.

 

[kyredneck]

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

To the Partial (Orthodox) Preterist, there is no problem with this passage:

“The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.” C. Hodge

Peter was an apostle to the circumcision; Jews were his audience in this epistle, the passage is immediately referring to the Jews of 'that generation'. Water baptism was an act of profession for the Christian Jew, a statement of their belief which would ultimately determine whether they were 'saved from' the casting forth of Mt 8:12, or the wrath of Mt 3:7 & Lu 21:22,32, or the destruction of Acts 2:40 & 3:23, or the breaking off of Ro 11:20, etc..

It is a [common] mistake to indiscriminately, willy nilly with a broad brush, apply eternal consequences to 'saved' [sozo] in the scriptures. See:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=72061
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16:16

 

[Matt Black]

Thanks - interesting that you also quote Mark 16:16 as this is another verse oft-quoted by baptismal regenerationists.

 

[kyredneck]

Thanks - interesting that you also quote Mark 16:16 as this is another verse oft-quoted by baptismal regenerationists.

Your welcome. I could have phrased the statement from above like this:

"It is a [common] mistake to indiscriminately, willy nilly with a broad brush, make regeneration (birth from above) to be synonymous with 'saved' [sozo] in the scriptures."

One must be regenerated in order to be saved-Jn 1:12,13.

 

[Moriah]

This is something I wrote on water baptism and like to share it any chance I get. Since water baptism is being discussed, I thought I would post.

John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 1:76-80).

We are still to confess that we are sinners, and to repent, to prepare the way for Jesus Christ into our lives.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

The Bible tells us before people were baptized-they repented. Infants cannot repent.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 1:5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

Acts 19:18
Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done.

Christians are to be water baptized, even after having received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:47 Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Our old nature is to die and we are to be “buried with Him through baptism into death.” We are buried with the water, and raised out of the water, raised to “walk in newness of life” (live like Jesus).

Picture how baptism looks…the believer comes to make the pledge to God, to die to the sins of the world; so now standing in the water the believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.

Romans explain this perfectly.
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Water baptism is a promise of a good conscience to God. See 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Infants cannot make a promise. Moreover, no one, not even the infant’s parents can make a promise for their child, nor can anyone make a promise for anyone else.

Infant baptism interferes with people knowing and obeying the Truth. Infant baptism confuses non-Christians and those who want to be a Christian. Many people baptized as an infant do not understand why they do not really know the Lord. Those baptized as infants do not usually walk the path that Jesus teaches...unless they learn more of the truth later. Infant baptism has been confusing millions of people for years. It is more serious of an issue that most even realize.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your welcome. I could have phrased the statement from above like this:

"It is a [common] mistake to indiscriminately, willy nilly with a broad brush, make regeneration (birth from above) to be synonymous with 'saved' [sozo] in the scriptures."

One must be regenerated in order to be saved-Jn 1:12,13.

regeneration IS being saved!

one cannot be regenerated by god and NOT have eternal life from Christ thru the Holy spirit imparted by God into Him!

 

[Yeshua1]

Was Noah and his family (mentioned in the first part of that passage) actually saved BY the water? No. They were save by God. God used the ark and its buoyancy IN the water to save them. Without God's Divine Providence and had Noah built that ark by his own idea and accord - the ark would not have saved them. There was nothing supernatural about the boat - but the everything was supernatural about the God who guided the boat.

Are Christians saved BY being baptized?

Peter says no. He is careful to to explain that it is "NOT the removal of the filth of the flesh". And that is all that water can do.

He says that baptism "corresponds" to what happened to Noah and that it is a "pledge" (an offer, vow, token, promise, or sign) and he is careful to say that the water saves "through the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

A pledge (offer, vow, token, promise, or sign - I Googled the definition) carries no weight at all if the heart of person giving or saying the pledge is is untrue.

Are Christians actually saved BY the water? No. They are save by God and Jesus Christ. There is nothing supernatural about the water in the baptistry - but the everything is supernatural about the God who guided the heart of the believer and everything is supernatural about Jesus Christ and His resurrection.

To me, Peter is merely making a symbolic connection between the waters of the Old Testament and New Testament. The flood being an antitype, if you will.

excellent! the Ark, which corresponds to jesus as the Ark for sinners that saves us, pointed towards the new nature/rebirth/new hart from God given when born again!

And the water has no miracle power in it, as just as Noah had faith in god and belived in Him to be saved thru the flood, same way we are to trust in the ark jesus to save us!

 

[kyredneck]

regeneration IS being saved!

one cannot be regenerated by god and NOT have eternal life from Christ thru the Holy spirit imparted by God into Him!

"....you've never pondered the questions, you have no real answer, only a knee jerk renunciation with no scripture (as usual) and no remedy or solution for the contradiction of scripture you've implied. You just upchuck."
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1860780&postcount=26

 

[Moriah]

One must be regenerated in order to be saved-Jn 1:12,13.

What do you mean one must be regenerated in order to be saved?
Those scriptures you gave do not say what you said.

 

[kyredneck]

What do you mean one must be regenerated in order to be saved?
Those scriptures you gave do not say what you said.

v 12 "as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God" = SAVED (into the kingdom; a covenant relationship with God)

v 13 "who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. = REGENERATED (born from above; born of the spirit)

 

[Moriah]

v 12 "as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God" = SAVED (into the kingdom; a covenant relationship with God)

v 13 "who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. = REGENERATED (born from above; born of the spirit)

I just do not see where it is two different situations. When Jesus saves us, we are then born again.

Maybe we have the same beliefs about this, except it sounded like you were saying something that Calvinists say, that one is regenerated first so that one can believe in God.

 

[Yeshua1]

I just do not see where it is two different situations. When Jesus saves us, we are then born again.

Maybe we have the same beliefs about this, except it sounded like you were saying something that Calvinists say, that one is regenerated first so that one can believe in God.

difference among calvinists though on this, as some hold to regeneration happening quite a while before faith in jesus, while many cals like me see it as happening pretty much at same time!

 

[percho]

This is where we talk about the verse which is oft-cited by proponents of baptismal regeneration as support for their view. The first part, on a Plain Reading(TM) of Scripture, seems clear enough: "And this water symbolizes baptism, which now saves you". But is it so unequivocal? And what does the second part of the verse, that bit about the "pledge of a good conscience" mean?

I'd be interested to see how (credo-) Baptists interpret this verse?

I posted this in another thread today.

I believe the water baptism of Jesus was prophetic and by our submitting to water baptism in his name we show that we also will drink of the cup he drink and be baptized with the baptism he was baptized with.

Luke 12:50 Matt 20:22,23


Now that being said that would mean to me that even our water baptism is a prophetic picture for us. Does not 1 Peter 3:21 not say essentially the same thing as Paul says in Romans 6?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 1 Peter 3:21 Yet we have a good conscience toward God, because back to Romans; 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: V8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

A good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

I have asked before, without much response I might add, is there a chronological order of events in the water baptism of Jesus and to us also.

When in the water and was suffered.
Came up straightway out of the water.
The Spirit of God (the Father) lit on him in the form of a dove.
Voice from heaven declaring Jesus as the Son of God.

Were these things chronologically prophetic of Jesus of Nazareth the Son of God?

How? If so, which I believe them to be.

Remember we are in Jesus Christ, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. (with him)

 

[Moriah]

difference among calvinists though on this, as some hold to regeneration happening quite a while before faith in jesus, while many cals like me see it as happening pretty much at same time!

That is good to know about those two differences.

 

[reformed_baptist]

regeneration IS being saved!

Regenration is one step in the process of salvation. It precedes conversion, justification, adoption and glorification.

one cannot be regenerated by god and NOT have eternal life from Christ thru the Holy spirit imparted by God into Him!

Whilst that is true it does not make the two term synonymous.

 

[reformed_baptist]

This is where we talk about the verse which is oft-cited by proponents of baptismal regeneration as support for their view. The first part, on a Plain Reading(TM) of Scripture, seems clear enough: "And this water symbolizes baptism, which now saves you". But is it so unequivocal? And what does the second part of the verse, that bit about the "pledge of a good conscience" mean?

I'd be interested to see how (credo-) Baptists interpret this verse?

Credo- baptists interpret this verse in the light of those of portion of scripture that are more clear. By that I mean we do not take an understanding of this text that would contradict less ambigious passages of God's word.

Baptismal regeneration is clearly contradicted by scripture teaching in the psoitive assertions of how one is saved, salvation is linked to faith, see for example John 3:16, 18, 36, John 6:35, 40, John 11:25-26 etc.

Most clear of all notice these words,

1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. (1Jo 5:1 NKJ)

and

1 John 5:5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? (1Jo 5:5 NKJ)

That last one makes it clear that it is only those who believe who will overcome. Hence when the phillipian jailor called out, what must I do to be saved, Paul and Silas answered, you must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

So we reject on interpretation of these words that involves baptismal regeneration

As to how we understand these word, well i think this quote is pretty good

What does Peter mean when he introduces the term symbol? Are the waters of the flood the original and is baptism a symbol of the flood? No, not really. We should not make any comparison between something great (the flood waters) and something small (the water of baptism), because Peter is only indicating likeness or correspondence.72 The text allows for a resemblance between the flood and baptism. That is, as the flood waters cleansed the earth of man’s wickedness, so the water of baptism indicates man’s cleansing from sin. As the flood separated Noah and his family from the wicked world of their day, so baptism separates believers from the evil world of our day. Baptism, then, is the counterpart of the flood.
[Kistemaker, Simon J. ; Hendriksen, William: New Testament Commentary : Exposition of the Epistles of Peter and the Epistle of Jude. Grand Rapids : Baker Book House, 1953-2001 (New Testament Commentary 16), S. 147]

 

[Yeshua1]

Regenration is one step in the process of salvation. It precedes conversion, justification, adoption and glorification.



Whilst that is true it does not make the two term synonymous.

regeneration and faith in jesus happen at same time, as the Holy Spirit takes the message of the gospel and enables the elect in Christ to be able to have the faith needed to receive jesus and get saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

That is good to know about those two differences.

Think reformed would see a person getting regenerated for perhaps a period of time by God before placing faith in jesus and getting saved, while baptists holding to DoG tend to see it at same time, part of same event!

 

[kyredneck]

Think reformed would see a person getting regenerated for perhaps a period of time by God before placing faith in jesus and getting saved, while baptists holding to DoG tend to see it at same time, part of same event!

Well this Baptist sees Isaac born after the Spirit by the time of his weaning, David made to hope while on his mother's breast, and John the Baptist filled with the Spirit and jumping from joy while in his mother's womb.