How Do the Moral Commands of the Law and Those in the NT Mesh for Christians?

[1689Dave]

So none of the people in the church at Ephesus were born again?

I think if you use 9 of the 10 Commandments (no Sabbath) to reveal sin in the unregenerate in order to bring them to Christ, and use it on new converts to teach repentance, you will understand Paul.

But any born again Christian who has experienced the fruit of the Spirit, values it more than life itself. And will hate and flee from sin just as anyone hates any life threatening condition and flees from it.

And we walk in the Spirit through Love in accordance with the Two Great Commandments.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Law is beautiful and to be pondered, but we are under Grace through Christ and have the Spirit. The Law is no longer our supervisor, the Greek seems to be chaperone for a child. The Spirit is our supervisor, and in this viewpoint we launch ourselves into devotedly fulfilling the expanded Law of Christ. The Law of Christ not being a replacement, but a perfection of what Moses gave. The Law and Prophets still stand, and we should be obedient to not sin. Sin being defined by the Law.

That said, God has fulfilled the Laws of uncleanness with the Cross. Also we do not restrict our diet anymore by God's decree, and IMO we are no longer bound by the four laws of Acts 15 to Antioch.

The moral Law of God as expressed to us in the 10 Commandments are still the objective standard as to what we should or should not be doing.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think if you use the 9 of the 10 Commandments (no Sabbath) to reveal sin in the unregenerate in order to bring them to Christ, and use it on new converts to teach repentance, you will understand Paul.

But any born again Christian who has experienced the fruit of the Spirit, values it more than life itself. And will hate and flee from sin just as anyone hates any life threatening condition and flees from it.

And we walk in the Spirit through Love in accordance with the Two Great Commandments.

Do we not still ahve the law to show us right would be right/wrong practice as Christians?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

The moral Law of God as expressed to us in the 10 Commandments are still the objective standard as to what we should or should not be doing.

I believe the Ten Commandments stand, but that Christ perfects the Commands of God, such as in the Sermon on the Mount.

That said, the Law has added to it the revelation of the prophets. Even then, the Law is now perfected, fulfilled, consummated by Jesus. The Sermon on the Mount shows this.

The commands on righteousness are found all throughout the bible, old and new testaments. And we are bound by all of them.

Laws of uncleanness being fulfilled on the Cross, and dietary and circumcision laws having been changed.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I think if you use 9 of the 10 Commandments (no Sabbath) to reveal sin in the unregenerate in order to bring them to Christ, and use it on new converts to teach repentance, you will understand Paul.

The Ten Commandments come as a box set. 'These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud and the thick darkness, with a loud voice: and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me' (Deuteronomy 5:22).
Matthew 5:19. 'Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.'
James 2:10. 'For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.'

But any born again Christian who has experienced the fruit of the Spirit, values it more than life itself. And will hate and flee from sin just as anyone hates any life threatening condition and flees from it.

The born-again believer delights to keep God's righteous moral laws-- all of them-- and is distressed when he fails. Woe to anyone who teaches him that so long as he 'loves' he can break them. Matthew 18:6 does not only apply to physical 'little ones.'

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe the Ten Commandments stand, but that Christ perfects the Commands of God, such as in the Sermon on the Mount.

That said, the Law has added to it the revelation of the prophets. Even then, the Law is now perfected, fulfilled, consummated by Jesus. The Sermon on the Mount shows this.

The commands on righteousness are found all throughout the bible, old and new testaments. And we are bound by all of them.

Laws of uncleanness being fulfilled on the Cross, and dietary and circumcision laws having been changed.

Yes, the 2 aspects of the Law were fulfilled and passed away, but the Moral Law of God abides forever as the objective right and wrong standard.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Ten Commandments come as a box set. 'These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud and the thick darkness, with a loud voice: and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me' (Deuteronomy 5:22).
Matthew 5:19. 'Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.'
James 2:10. 'For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.'

The born-again believer delights to keep God's righteous moral laws-- all of them-- and is distressed when he fails. Woe to anyone who teaches him that so long as he 'loves' he can break them. Matthew 18:6 does not only apply to physical 'little ones.'

He is doing a marvelous job of showing to us NCT.

 

[1689Dave]

The Ten Commandments come as a box set.

This is the problem. If you keep only one commandment you must keep all of them including the civil and ceremonial aspects.

“For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.”” (Galatians 3:10)

 

[Yeshua1]

This is the problem. If you keep only one commandment you must keep all of them including the civil and ceremonial aspects.

“For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.”” (Galatians 3:10)

We are not saying that we must keep the law in order to get riht with God, as the Cross of Christ is where I was justified and saved from my sins, but now saved, do still have the law to show to me the moral obligations those who take the name of jesus are still under!

 

[1689Dave]

He is doing a marvelous job of showing to us NCT.

If you can point out what NCT teaches, and show that I teach the same, I would appreciate your efforts. But I have taught this position on the Law long before hearing about NCT. I gave it a quick glimpse and thought it was buggy. Most of what I teach comes from Reformed sources. A great book on the subject is by Albertus Pieters of Western Reformed Theological Seminary called "The Seed of Abraham". Published in 1950 by Eerdmans. No NCT existed at this time.

 

[Yeshua1]

If you can point out what NCT teaches, and show that I teach the same, I would appreciate your efforts. But I have taught this position on the Law long before hearing about NCT. I gave it a quick glimpse and thought it was buggy. Most of what I teach comes from Reformed sources. A great book on the subject is by Albertus Pieters of Western Reformed Theological Seminary called "The Seed of Abraham". Published in 1950 by Eerdmans. No NCT existed at this time.

Denying that we are still under the moral obligations of the Law, and that we are now under the 2 Commandments of Jesus, the Law of Christ, is NCT!

 

[1689Dave]

We are not saying that we must keep the law in order to get riht with God, as the Cross of Christ is where I was justified and saved from my sins, but now saved, do still have the law to show to me the moral obligations those who take the name of jesus are still under!

This is fine. I use the Law as God intended it to convict unbelievers of sin. And to coax repentance in new converts. But if you Walk in the Spirit, as Paul teaches, you will not need anyone to tell you not to murder or steal. You will not want to. This is why the protestant churches are such stalwarts on this matter. Because their institutional churches are packed to the gills with unbelievers.

 

[1689Dave]

Denying that we are still under the moral obligations of the Law, and that we are now under the 2 Commandments of Jesus, the Law of Christ, is NCT!

I do not do this. The Ten Commandments spell out sin for the unregenerate. And if you need them to hold yourself on course, you are not walking in the Spirit. “But if you fulfill the royal law as expressed in this scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.” (James 2:8)

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not do this. The Ten Commandments spell out sin for the unregenerate. And if you need them to hold yourself on course, you are not walking in the Spirit. “But if you fulfill the royal law as expressed in this scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.” (James 2:8)

The law of God spells out sins to all of us, as they remain the moral standards of God!

 

[1689Dave]

The law of God spells out sins to all of us, as they remain the moral standards of God!

But you are not under them in any way. They are for instruction and commentary. If you keep the Sabbath, you must keep the entire law, moral, civil and ceremonial which means you must renounce Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

But you are not under them in any way. They are for instruction and commentary. If you keep the Sabbath, you must keep the entire law, moral, civil and ceremonial which means you must renounce Christ.

Still a day unto the lord, correct? They did in Acts, gathered together first day of the week to worship, hear preaching etc.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The Ten Commandments come as a box set.

This is the problem. If you keep only one commandment you must keep all of them including the civil and ceremonial aspects.

That is a mighty big non sequitur.
So when Paul instructed the young people in Ephesus to obey their parents, he was also telling them to be circumcised and obey the whole ceremonial law?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

But you are not under them in any way. They are for instruction and commentary. If you keep the Sabbath, you must keep the entire law, moral, civil and ceremonial which means you must renounce Christ.

If you love the Lord, you love the day He has given you to keep and 'call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honourable, and shall honour Him, not going your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words. Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; and [God] will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth' (Isaiah 58:13-14). The fourth commandment is a moral law, which is why it is found with the other moral laws.

 

[1689Dave]

If you love the Lord, you love the day He has given you to keep and 'call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honourable, and shall honour Him, not going your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words. Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; and [God] will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth' (Isaiah 58:13-14). The fourth commandment is a moral law, which is why it is found with the other moral laws.

This was for the people God brought from Egypt, not you. And Jeremiah says: ““Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord.” (Jeremiah 31:31–32)

And the Ten Commandments ARE the Old Covenant the New Covenant replaced. The TEN Commandments ARE the Old Covenant the New Covenant replaced them.

In Exodus 34:28 we read: “And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.”

Deuteronomy 4:13: “And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.”

Deuteronomy 9:9: “When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.”

Deuteronomy 9:15: “So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.”


And so on...................

We only use the Ten Commandments to convict sinners in evangelism, and to help train new converts in repentance. If you walk in the Spirit, you will keep them with a proper motive - love, by keeping the Two Great Commandments.

 

[1689Dave]

Still a day unto the lord, correct? They did in Acts, gathered together first day of the week to worship, hear preaching etc.

This was a work day, so they probably met after work? I think a better way to put it is. They used some of the Ten Commandments to convict unbelievers of sin. And to teach repentance to new converts. But the mature Christians walked in the Spirit and fulfilled the Law with a proper motive - Love. This is why James and others say if you love your neighbor as yourself you fulfill the royal law. Without love and faith as a motive, all of your legalism is sin.