I have rebutted this bogus assertion many times. But Y1 does not address the rebuttal, he simply repeats the false doctrine. Beware
The lost can understand and respond to spiritual "milk" which includes the Gospel of Christ.
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How do you know true doctrine.
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
The lost can understand and respond to spiritual "milk" which includes the Gospel of Christ.
You know Paul did not say the lost cannot understand spiritual milk, but you present that false doctrine over and over. Paul spoke as to men of flesh using spiritual milk.
Yet another false doctrine from Y1, who denies Paul spoke "as to men of flesh." He simply deletes whatever scripture does not mesh with his false doctrine.
Lost people cannot discern the truth from Scripture, that is just a Biblical truth:
Romans 3:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
1 Corinthians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Understanding of Scripture, particularly the Mystery of the Gospel...has always been due to the Holy Ghost revealing truth to the natural heart. He did this throughout the entirety of the Old Testament, and it is His primary ministry as the Comforter:
John 16:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
He brings conviction to those who are of the world and not believing on Jesus Christ.
He also performs this ministry in our lives as Christians. Here is an example of Divine Revelation of Truth (and I am not saying the disciples were Christians, they were not, because they were not yet born again):
Matthew 16:13-17 King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
The disciples did not "discern" truth, it was revealed to them. If anyone had a chance of "discerning" truth, it would have been the guys that ministered under Christ, who cast out demons, healed, and preached the Kingdom Gospel.
1 Corinthians 2:7-13 King James Version (KJV)
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
This passage, beginning in about v.16 of the previous chapter (and carrying on to the end of this one) is specific to the Mystery of the Gospel. The point being that the Mystery as well as those things we teach are taught to us by the Holy Ghost.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Likewise here.
And here...
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
All men, lost or saved, are dependant on God to reveal truth to them. This is the consistent pattern of Biblical History.
God bless.
Note the change of subject, the smoke screen deflection. Paul spoke to people "as to men of flesh" using spiritual milk. Period, End of Story. Full Stop.
Will Y1 address this fact? Nope. Deleting scripture is the hall mark of false teachers.
How do you think the lost will be saved if no-one preaches the Gospel to them? lol
It is true that the natural man cannot understand spiritual truths, but we still deliver the Gospel to the lost. But what we keep in mind is this: only the Spirit of God can make the natural mind understand:
1 Corinthians 3:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
God bless.
Utterly false doctrine, being presented with an overly long post full of non-germane references.
1) Romans 3:10-11 does not say "at all times." The idea is we all sin.
2) 1 Cor. 2:14 does not say "all" the things of the spirit.
3) The work of the Spirit includes inspiring the NT which presents the gospel and convicts us of sin.
4) God's word reveals the gospel and leads people to Christ
5) The NT reveals the "mystery" of the gospel.
If this false doctrine were true, then Paul would not have spoken to people "as to men of flesh."
I notice you fail to quote a single thing I said and show, from Scripture...how it is "utterly false."
So Scripture misspeaks?
It is not at "all times" that all men are unrighteous?
It is not at all times that there is none that understandeth?
It is not at all times that there is none who seek after God?
My friend, you need to have a chat with the Holy Ghost and let Him know His error, and perhaps help Him with the editing process.
So tell me...
...where exactly can you fit "The natural man can receive some of the things of the Spirit" in there?
You are ascribing the work of the Comforter to the Bible.
Show me where the Lord states the New Testament will convict of sin? When He is come, Van, when He is come...He will.
Only if the Spirit reveals the truth of the Gospel Mystery to them:
Ephesians 3:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
1 Peter 1:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
The natural man cannot simply read the Bible and intellectually discern truth.
Yayyy, we agree on something. However, even now believers must rely on the Holy Ghost to reveal this truth to them. Sadly many7 struggle with this.
That we convey the Gospel to natural men is true, however, the point I am making is that unless the Spirit reveals the truth to their hearts our words are useless. Their reading is useless. Their hearing is useless.
The Gospel can only be understood by revelation from the Holy Ghost, which is simply His Ministry in the world today, both in and out of the Church. If you think for one minute that any truth you do understand is a result of your own endeavors, then I hope your home has very wide doors. To allow that head through, that is...
God bless.
Yes, as the one that I hold to would be the one of Pauline Justification!
But...there is no Pauline Justification in the Bible.And there is no Pauline Justification in the real and true Gospel. So again, do you hold to the real and true Gospel? You rail against those who don't but I am failing to see you present the real and true Gospel.
God bless.
paul has 3 classes of people he is talking about:
Lost/unsaved natural people
Babes in Christ saved but thinking/acting immature
Mature christians
I agree that the Holy Spirit must enable the lost to be able to receive the truths of scriptures, but paul talking about spiritual milk/meat was towards the saved already!
Jesus died in my place on that Cross, tasking my deserved punishment and judgement against me as a sinner, and God imputes to me the very righteousness of Christ based upon his death and resurrection for my justification! Received by grace alone thru faith alone!
was addressing the statement about natural men cannot receive spiritual truths unless given that means by the Holy Spirit!