There is no doctrine that we call by those terms?
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How do you know true doctrine.
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
Which is the point. If you are going to try to defend the depravity of man you need to understand how it is that natural men receive the Gospel (and all spiritual truth) and why those of modern Arminian belief (that natural men have the ability to understand spiritual truth) are in error to refute direct teaching of Scripture.
And as I have told you numerous times...you need to start posting Scripture to support your assertions.
God bless.
Here it is again:
Your assertion was that spiritual milk was not for the unsaved. That is error. The Gospel is for all men, not just the Elect. Not that all will be saved, but, all will receive enough Revelation that when they stand before God and are judged they will be held accountable for rejecting saving knowledge.
God bless.
I agree with you on giving to Gospel to all sinners, and was just addressing the part where van seems to be saying that unsaved/natural people can accept the Bible was what paul was teaching there!
Probably, but there is also a doctrine called Soul Sleep, and we don't go around throwing that out do we? lol
Truly Paul taught about Justification, but I would hesitate to call it "Pauline." Justification is, and always has been of God. It is better to distinguish Justification as either Temporal or Eternal. In Romans 4 and James 2 it is Temporal, and in Romans 3 and 5 it is Eternal. Peter is the only one to really make a statement about being born "again" specifically, but we don't call it Peter's Regeneration, right? IF you are going to use terms and concepts it is a good idea to provide the Scripture. Example:
Temporal Justification:
Luke 18:10-14 King James Version (KJV)
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Romans 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
James 2:21-24 King James Version (KJV)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Neither the sinner nor Abraham were Eternally Redeemed by these acts of faith. They were justified on a temporal basis. The sinner looked to God for the remission of sin. Abraham believed God would make him a father of many nations by giving him a son through a presumably barren wife. So much that he performed works, noted twice as offering up his son Isaac, knowing God would raise him (Isaac from the dead) because God had promised and Abraham believed God's promise.
Eternal Justification:
Romans 3:24-26 King James Version (KJV)
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Only Christ can provide Eternal Life. And this is always attributed to His death
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 King James Version (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Justification in the Old Testament was necessary and secured the eternal destinies of the Saint. But it was not the means God intended to reconcile men unto Himself, nor bestow Justification unto Life.
God bless.
I understand, but you need to do more than just one-line retorts that lack a Scriptural basis. You need to post the relevant Scripture, my friend. That is what the Holy Ghost is going to use to convict men of error.
God bless.
Utterly false doctrine, being presented with an overly long post full of non-germane references.
1) Romans 3:10-11 does not say "at all times." The idea is we all sin.
2) 1 Cor. 2:14 does not say "all" the things of the spirit.
3) The work of the Spirit includes inspiring the NT which presents the gospel and convicts us of sin.
4) God's word reveals the gospel and leads people to Christ
5) The NT reveals the "mystery" of the gospel.
If this false doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability were true, then Paul would not have spoken to people "as to men of flesh" using spiritual milk. Scripture would not lead the lost to Christ. Scripture would not be provides so the lost could believe. On and on, the deniers of scripture post nonsense.
Pauline Justification though is the agreed upon wording/term used to describe Justification from the NT biblical sense!
Yet another bogus assertion, so general it covers both truth and falsehood. This is all they have folks, Matthew 13 tells us of someone lost who accepted the gospel with joy. On and on they repeat their bogus assertions, never acknowledging error. They deny that the NT is the work of the Holy Spirit, and thus when we are invited by the call of the gospel, that is "by the Holy Spirit Himself." The slice and dice scripture to rob it of meaning. No one seeks God all the time, we all sin. There version "no one seeks God at any time. No one at any time understands the gospel, our evangelism never aids the lost to find Christ. No sir, they deny whatever contradicts their man-made foolishness.
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Hobie
Well-Known Member
Very good advice, as scripture is what has Gods truth.
Uncertainty weakens commitment, and who has that as a goal?
Folks that address the poster rather than the post hinder edification.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Was post #75 addressing me or my post?
My post was not addressing any one, nor did it quote any one. It was a statement of fact that even testing doctrine or spirits today is not proof of anything. Who gets to be the truthful unchanging judge? It seems that no one can agree with all 100%. That fact alone hinders edification by the Holy Spirit, because even in disagreement both cannot be right, even if they feel edified. Who exactly is edifying and being edified, even when false doctrine and false spirits can equally edify?
When objected to, all humans get emotional. Psalm 119:165
"They that love thy law, shall have great prosperity, and they shall have none hurt."
There is a very strong argument that if it is from Scripture, one will not be hurt emotionally, nor be offended. If they realize the Scripture was rebuking them, they will figure out why? They will not, in wisdom, keep fighting the Holy Spirit. Humans are good at fighting for their rights and opinions. It comes very easy. It takes more grace to stand up for the truth.
timtofly said: ↑
It could also be the blind leading the blind. A false spirit testing a false spirit will give a false positive.
Uncertainty weakens commitment, and who has that as a goal?It could also be the blind leading the blind. A false spirit testing a false spirit will give a false positive.
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